Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#231

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

Acinyx wrote: post #126

matkoniecz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you will never have working audio" - what you mean by that? Some specific software not working on Linux or complete lack of audio? I run into some cases of software refusing to run on Linux (though curiously, I switched to Linux due to software refusing to work on Windows). I run into wifi/printer issues (but both on Linux and Windows) and I managed Linux to Work, while Windows remained resistant to debugging and ke…

One example I found recently is bluetooth headsets: On Windows it by defaults uses the high quality audio output profile, but switches to "headset" profile when an app requires a microphone and picks the headset. On Linux (Ubuntu to be precise) you have to manually pick the profile somewhere deep in Pulse, making the usage of the microphone pretty hard as you first have to figure out how to change it and secondly nee…

Bluetooth audio in Linux is strangely good in a point: LDAC support. Windows/macOS doesn't support LDAC but (GNU/)Linux has ported LDAC support from Android.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#232

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #74

microtonal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows programs for Linux"? Whoops, typo. Windows programs from Linux , I'll fix that. You can mount other host filesystems from inside the VM in any hypervisor I know of. In most hypervisors you can't do a notepad.exe foo.txt or TextEdit.app foo.txt for that matter in a Linux VM,

With virtio-fs I think this is becoming more doable. Of course, it's not quite as fast as running a guest filesystem on virtio-blk yet, but maybe it'll get there.

WSL can run `notepad.exe foo` from bash. Not only fs integration.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#233

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

whereistimbo wrote: post #156

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably means they want to leverage out the existing open source VM software so they can make one with proprietary Windows support (at some point down the line). There is a long history of this in the past with Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... Everyone should be afraid of this, even the Microsoft employees commenting here. Look at the 737 MAX post on the front page for ano…

Or maybe the Hyper-V team sees that Windows as the only host that Hyper-V support as a liability. Look at [0], you need 16 hours to compile Windows in 64 bit superfast workstation w/ hundreds of GB memory, which would be frustrating and annoying, if they just want to improve Hyper-V and testing, working w/ Linux would be much faster since it compiles within minutes on standard dev machine with adequate RAM. [0]: http…

Windows contains not only kernel but also many components like stdlibs, daemons, graphics, basic apps, and so on. So you should compare compiling time for Linux, glibc, systemd, X/Wayland, GNOME, wpa_supplicant, PulseAudio and so on.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#234

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

whereistimbo wrote: post #167

robbyt wrote: post #127

Perhaps Microsoft is finally tired of trying to get Azure working on the Windows kernel. Or possibly they need this for ARM VM instances?

Perhaps Hyper-V team is already tired dealing with Windows. I mean look at this quote: "...it takes approximately 16 hours to compile Windows on a 64 cores super fast server-class machine optimized for the job, and with hundreds of GB of memory, and that time does not include running tests." [0] [0] https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-about-open-sourcing-...

Azure team should use Windows Server Core or similar equivalent for Hypervisor OS that don't need Desktop features. Minimum Windows is not so much huge.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#235

Post by microcolonel » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 1:42 PM UTC

fomine3 wrote: post #232

microcolonel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With virtio-fs I think this is becoming more doable. Of course, it's not quite as fast as running a guest filesystem on virtio-blk yet, but maybe it'll get there.

WSL can run `notepad.exe foo` from bash. Not only fs integration.

> WSL can run `notepad.exe foo` from bash.

Isn't that just a binary loader, like you can do with wine/qemu on any Linux? Surely it's mostly just proxying the pipes, replicating the working directory, and maybe keeping some of the environment variables. The filesystem integration seems like the trickiest part of that altogether.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#236

Post by ghshephard » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

severino wrote: post #218

ghshephard wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's odd - is that nobody ever decided to build a reasonable spreadsheet package, or imaging package, or heck, any of a hundred decent packages that are available on OS X and Windows. My day-day job is on Linux (And has so been for the last three years) - but that's because I live on a CLI, and my needs for spreadsheets/presentations are (A) Both very rudimentary, and (B) more often then not done with google docs a…

Yes, I understand your position. I tend to disagree, because for me, the Windows world is not a better world: I don't specially like the Windows UI, I don't like how updates are done, I value using open-source software and I don't like my vendor to be constantly trying to make me use its software, be it Internet Explorer, Edge or Bing. But if that is the best of both worlds for you, that's great. However, I feel WSL…

Actually - I think we agree a lot. I'm not a big fan of how updates are shoved down your throat and the system rebooted, (Though I do like the Fast/Slow/Preview/Full Release approach towards development that provides weekly releases if you want to live dangerous, and cautious well baked pre-releases of features 3-4 months before the public beta/full release)- much higher quality releases than the OS X Once-A-Year release). I definitely value using open-source software, not only because I find it to be higher-quality for what I do (data engineering) - but also the control and freedom I get from it. I am absolutely opposed to the Operating System vendor forcing stuff down my throat (One reason why I don't like SNAP on Ubuntu - it's kind of cruddy and forces us to use their store).

Remember - I use Linux all day for a reason - it's the better tool for the job I do.

But - Linux is incredibly lacking in highly-polished commercial software. I miss the dozens of beautifully crafted packages on OS X, and their somewhat less crafted variants on Windows constantly. That final finish, and careful craftsmanship that occurs from making every button, every font, every round-rec flawless - is something that, for the most parts - is completely absent on Linux.

I am a contrarian when it comes to Microsoft and Linux - I genuinely believe that they are going to do the right thing (And I say this as a Former Netscape Employee who knows all to well their EEE pattern) - particularly if we get to use the full desktop experience in WSL - then we'll know they are really on the right path.

But - by and large, I'm guessing we agree way more than disagree on stuff.