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Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#231

Post by [deleted] »

rosege wrote: post #202
makecheck wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is crazy: Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> (ALL the way to the bottom of the list, past all apps) System Services -> Location-Based Apple Ads. Oh, and if you have text size increased by any amount, “Ads” doesn’t even appear and it’s just “Location-Based Apple...” (on or off). The harder something is to find and disable, the shadier it seems.

Apple definitely does shady stuff. Sure on privacy they are the better option, usually. But don't forget it recently came out that Siri was sending recordings to be analysed without the users knowledge. They also will only very begrudgingly fix design faults in their products. I recently was a victim of their flexgate issue and because I have the 15" MacBook Pro it isn't automatically covered. Other users with this i…

[deleted]

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#232

Post by goblin89 »

rosege wrote: post #202
makecheck wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is crazy: Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> (ALL the way to the bottom of the list, past all apps) System Services -> Location-Based Apple Ads. Oh, and if you have text size increased by any amount, “Ads” doesn’t even appear and it’s just “Location-Based Apple...” (on or off). The harder something is to find and disable, the shadier it seems.

Apple definitely does shady stuff. Sure on privacy they are the better option, usually. But don't forget it recently came out that Siri was sending recordings to be analysed without the users knowledge. They also will only very begrudgingly fix design faults in their products. I recently was a victim of their flexgate issue and because I have the 15" MacBook Pro it isn't automatically covered. Other users with this i…

That Siri sends recordings to humans for analysis without user consent is a myth. I went through a screen pointing out this is exactly what will happen, and buttons to opt in or out, during initial OS setup. This was a while ago, before iOS 14. The myth is likely perpetuated by people who do not use Apple devices.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#233

Post by goblin89 »

graeme wrote: post #197
judge2020 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while preserving that ability for Apple by default. I think you mean by design. Ads above search results can be tracked because they're shown within the App Store, so they don't require looking at "who is this user" from within the downloaded app, they can just differentiate based on where it was placed, like Google Ads. The only case I can see here is "why does apple get to be the only ones with ads on search resu…

No apple is actually leaving their IDFA use on by default while turning other app’s idfa to default off.

That's perfect, I don't want my data to go somewhere I don't control and Apple already knows enough that it makes literally no difference but helps support indie developers as I'll be more likely to buy someone's app from a well-targeted add shown in App Store.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#234

Post by pwinnski »

rrdharan wrote: post #198
pwinnski wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Apple shut down their ad network years ago, so that's not what these options are for.

I believe you're referring to iAd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd You're being downvoted because they still make money off of advertising: "The iAd App Network was discontinued as of June 30, 2016.[8] Since then the technology lives on in both Apple News Advertising and App Store Search Ads.[9]"

Right, but they have no ad network, only ads on their own properties. That's why the settings are different, they're describing totally different things.

I think the settings should be combined, but Apple is in no way tracking users across sites, because they're not tracking users like that at all. Refusing to track users is the entire reason their "iAd" ad network failed!

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#235

Post by Yetanfou »

dragonsky67 wrote: post #217
Yetanfou wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads have effectively disappeared for a number of years now for those who use a sensible approach to ad blocking (i.e. a combination of ingress blocking, DNS blacklists and browser-based blocking). This could change if content providers start using different approaches to ad insertion - e.g. video ads merged into the original content, ads as part of original page content - but even those avenues will be neutered withi…

In most cases I find direct ad insertion (as in ad sponsership of the creator) a lot less offensive than some algorythmetic insertion based on some unknown metric. At least then the creator has to decide if the ad they are running is acceptable in their product.

That isn't ad insertion but sponsorship. What I mean is for the server to present a single video stream which does not contain markers to identify advertising content, more or less the way many netcast ads are inserted into the audio stream.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#236

Post by asutekku »

Nextgrid wrote: post #228
K0nserv wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this what the feature is aiming to address. Apps that use the Facebook SDK will have to ask for permission to track the user and if the user says no they shouldn't intialize the Facebook SDK, at least not the parts that relate to ad analytics and tracking.

It seems to me that this feature only restricts access to the IDFA/Advertising ID. It does not prevent the app from loading a piece of malware that uses other means (device & network fingerprinting) to stalk you regardless of the availability of the IDFA.

It is something the advertisers do not want to do, as it would nuke their service from Apple’s platform.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#237

Post by Nextgrid »

goblin89 wrote: post #232
rosege wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple definitely does shady stuff. Sure on privacy they are the better option, usually. But don't forget it recently came out that Siri was sending recordings to be analysed without the users knowledge. They also will only very begrudgingly fix design faults in their products. I recently was a victim of their flexgate issue and because I have the 15" MacBook Pro it isn't automatically covered. Other users with this i…

That Siri sends recordings to humans for analysis without user consent is a myth. I went through a screen pointing out this is exactly what will happen, and buttons to opt in or out, during initial OS setup. This was a while ago, before iOS 14. The myth is likely perpetuated by people who do not use Apple devices.

That change was mode after the whole thing blew up last year. It used to be that this feature was enabled by default, with no way to opt-out and was not clearly disclosed to the user.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#238

Post by Nextgrid »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #161
ape4 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using Facebook in a browser like Firefox (not the app).

That's much worse because other visits can be tracked as well through to fingerprinting. The app (at least on iOS) is actually more controlled due to measures like these.

Disagreed. The app has access to a much more granular device fingerprint containing carrier name, battery status, accelerometer/magnetometer data (I've seen at least one nasty company exfiltrate such data in their SDK), etc which can directly be correlated by data collected by the malicious Facebook SDK that contaminates pretty much every other mainstream app. In contrast, the mapping between browser fingerprint and device fingerprint isn't a 1-to-1 and is a bit more fuzzy.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#239

Post by Nextgrid »

crazygringo wrote: post #181
curiousllama wrote: post #11

I understand why they delayed, and it may be the right decision. However, tracking-by-default is a dark pattern in software, and it needs to be driven out. In no other domain is implicit, cross-arena tracking by default acceptable. Computers _should be_ no exception.

> In no other domain is implicit, cross-arena tracking by default acceptable. Maybe you don't think it should be acceptable, but it's the norm everywhere. Computers aren't an exception. Your purchases are tracked by credit card companies. Your license plate is tracked by road cameras. Your financial history is tracked by credit bureaus. Your phone calls are tracked by your telephony provider. And you haven't opted in…

I think we're talking about a different kind of tracking. It's one thing if the data is collected for the purpose of billing (the telco needs to know who I called so they can charge me the correct price) or for exceptional circumstances (law enforcement, debugging logs for engineering, etc). It's another thing if this data is explicitly used against you to manipulate you better and waste your time with ads.

Most of the tracking you mentioned is done for purely functional purposes (the product/service can't work without knowing who you are, etc) where as the majority of online tracking is purely there for wasting people's time with ads.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#240

Post by Nextgrid »

K0nserv wrote: post #230
Nextgrid wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that this feature only restricts access to the IDFA/Advertising ID. It does not prevent the app from loading a piece of malware that uses other means (device & network fingerprinting) to stalk you regardless of the availability of the IDFA.

Apple have been very clear about you being responsible for the SDKs you use and while the technical limitations are only about IDFA Apple have also stated that other methods of fingerprinting are not allowed when the user asked not to be tracked. Thus, App A that uses SDK B can be banned from the App Store if the user asked not to be tracked but B still tracks using something like fingerprinting.

> other methods of fingerprinting are not allowed when the user asked not to be tracked

We'll need to see how well this is enforced and whether they will challenge bullshit excuses. I can already imagine the Facebook SDK sending its usual amount of PII and them saying "this is only for fraud protection (or a similar BS reason) and we pinky-promise to never use this information for anything else".

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