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Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

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Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#231

Post by ummonk »

lordnacho wrote: post #168
georgeecollins wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Universities in Europe really that high quality? Certainly some are, but as a parent researching schools I have been really surprised by how many European colleges are a bit mediocre by the criteria I was evaluating. For example, Spain and Italy have some of the oldest colleges in the world. But in many ways there are four or five colleges in California that are better, four or five colleges in Texas, and across…

My issue with the rankings is how they emphasise research. Why would it matter to an undergraduate how highly decorated his prof is? We used to joke that the more titles a guy had, the worse he was at teaching. I think this is true because the guys with the titles have moved on to managing research and finding funding, rather than having daily tasks to do with the research. I went to a very well known university that…

This depends whether you go to college to be taught or you go to college to network and get involved in research.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#232

Post by AdrianB1 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #64
vondur wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people are enrolling in College, and this is a problem. The end result in many cases has been lower the standards to get students to graduate. More people need to be geared towards trades and manufacturing jobs. The Covid Pandemic has shown us what happens when you put all your manufacturing in one country.

People will naturally go towards trades and manufacturing once the present value of expected future cash flow reaches equilibrium with alternatives and damage to their body. There’s a reason plumbers and electricians would rather their kid be a white collar worker. I just had a former carpenter come over to do some work and saw me in running shorts and said he wished he could still do physical activities, but the yea…

The area where I grew up was a mountain region where wood work was the main occupation of most men; even for men that worked in the forest cutting down trees such health problems were very rare, carpenters working in the shops in the village had no such problems. The guy that did the plumbing in my house when I built it was over 70 years old at that time and he was still working because he wanted to be active, even if he could retire at 60 years old by the local law. I find office workers having more health problems than people with some physical activity, sedentarism is a killer.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#233

Post by 121789 »

t0mbstone wrote: post #173
non-entity wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or how about breaking the degree monopoly with something like equivalent certification programs and let private companies fill the gap. Similar to what Google is doing with its certificate program they are rolling out. This stuff has existed for years and there are probably thousands of "certification programs". Most of the time, they're deemed worthless.

The real question is why schools like Khan Academy aren't accredited? Why can't we have free online courses for everyone, where the only costs are the actual free market costs that go towards staff required for administration, courseware development, instructors, and test proctoring? Why should a college degree from an online university cost a fortune, if the course material remains mostly unchanged from year to year…

Because this is all driven by initial post-university employment (and to some extent post-graduate degrees). Employers use university as a screen for jobs, and perceive candidate value based on university prestige. University prestige is based primarily on selectivity.

Accrediting Khan Academy (or Udacity, or whatever) won't change any of this process. Employers don't have an incentive to change their process right now, so in general students would not pick something like an online degree over traditional university.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#234

Post by lifeisstillgood »

My view is fairly simple - the median school leaving age has simply moved from 18 to 21.

My father left school at 14, and many of my friends left at 16, and around only 1/4 of us went on to university.

Today 1/2 pupils will attend university - to all intents and purposes their full time education continues from 5-21.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#235

Post by AdrianB1 »

jimhefferon wrote: post #154
bawana wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. They ARE AWASH in income. They just figure out how to spend it fast. Fancy buildings, fancy retirement plans, outrageous administrative salaries.... For example the Chairman of UMASS Medical Center makes 2.3 million. The CEO of Harvard makes 9.25 million. How are these jobs an order of magnitude harder than the governor of Massachusetts. (salary 150K) Or harder than the US President (salary 400K). I ca…

I cannot stop you from believing things that are false, but I can only assert that they are false.

You can be more specific or provide some corrected numbers if something is false.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#236

Post by noodlesUK »

lordnacho wrote: post #168
georgeecollins wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Universities in Europe really that high quality? Certainly some are, but as a parent researching schools I have been really surprised by how many European colleges are a bit mediocre by the criteria I was evaluating. For example, Spain and Italy have some of the oldest colleges in the world. But in many ways there are four or five colleges in California that are better, four or five colleges in Texas, and across…

My issue with the rankings is how they emphasise research. Why would it matter to an undergraduate how highly decorated his prof is? We used to joke that the more titles a guy had, the worse he was at teaching. I think this is true because the guys with the titles have moved on to managing research and finding funding, rather than having daily tasks to do with the research. I went to a very well known university that…

One of the problems that universities need to contend with is that they’re simultaneously meant to be research institutions and educational institutions. I think universities tend to do better if they focus on research first and let that lead their (comparatively smaller) teaching responsibilities.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#237

Post by BurningFrog »

Dannymetconan wrote: post #40
noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

Universities in Europe are generally high quality and low cost. It does have it's problems but it is not one or the other. You do not need a degree 30 years ago to do lots of jobs that now require one. Higher education for a lot of organizations is just an easy way to cut the application stack down

> You do not need a degree 30 years ago to do lots of jobs that now require one

This is part of the problem.

Stop demanding a formal degree for jobs, allow anyone who can do the job to do it, and much/some of these problems will go away.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#238

Post by whypvtcorps »

noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

Why private corporations?

Why not private citizens collaborating on open projects at scale?

Open source has proven it’s an approachable, valued concept to people of all backgrounds.

And a whole lot of the problems with public education have been made for political reasons, not real logistical reasons.

The financial system is not a free market when possession of its primary value stores is purposefully imbalanced by political forces so nakedly.

Why take “leave it corporate enterprise” further given reality?

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#239

Post by AdrianB1 »

travisporter wrote: post #100
noetic_techy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without government backed student loans for literally anyone who wants it, you suddenly dry up the money for colleges. They are forced to compete on degree cost and quality alone, and degree ROI will likely start to get factored into the price. College used to be relatively low cost long ago and easily accessible to the middle class, even lower middle class. Yes, the colleges will be hurting and screaming if they too…

I think you're demonizing gov't intervention in education, but you can't expect a democratically elected Congress to not try to prevent China/Russia to overtake them in science/engineering. College fees are insane, and loans are almost predatory, yes. But if banks don't give you a loan to go to school, shouldn't the government intervene? Also, I don't want VC backed colleges "competing" to maximize revenue/some arbit…

If the fear of Chinese or Russian engineering is a real thing, one can limit loans to engineering degrees, not to music, for example.

Another thing the government can do is to provide a limited loan for college and not for master degrees. In my company most assistants (lowest ranks in the office) have masters degrees because it's free (in Europe), a total waste of money.

And another: the more money the government gives, the higher the fees. OK, give less money, still help the students but not that much as today, get lower prices due to lowered supply.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#240

Post by t0mbstone »

laGrenouille wrote: post #225
t0mbstone wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question is why schools like Khan Academy aren't accredited? Why can't we have free online courses for everyone, where the only costs are the actual free market costs that go towards staff required for administration, courseware development, instructors, and test proctoring? Why should a college degree from an online university cost a fortune, if the course material remains mostly unchanged from year to year…

> staff required for administration, courseware development, instructors, and test proctoring These costs are not exactly negligible, though they are much less than the prices charged by private 4-year colleges. The average community college tuition and fees is only $3400 [0]. That's fairly close to the "free market" cost of providing tutoring, creating new tests, test grading, and other administrative fees. So, I th…

Yeah... essentially, I'm just wanting a high-quality online community college with accreditation.
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