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Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

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Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#231

Post by squarefoot »

gowld wrote: post #214
amluto wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newspapers had plenty of ad revenue before tracking. Apps could be monetized by ads that are targeted based on the in-app content only.

Then why did they almost all go bankrupt?

Some went bankrupt because one can't store a forest into a memory card. It's all about costs. A physical newspaper costs a lot more to produce than a blog, and doesn't scale like one as well: even printing a handful of copies would cost a lot more than serving millions of people through a blog.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#232

Post by adrr »

csunbird wrote: post #114
shajznnckfke wrote: post #102

In iOS 13, Apple and third-party ad tracking were both controlled by the same opt-out setting. In iOS 14, the settings have been split, with third party tracking disabled and and Apple’s tracking enabled by default. Blatant anticompetitive behavior to promote their own tracking services in the guise of protecting users. Genius move by Apple. https://twitter.com/eric_seufert/status/1291730115253145600?...

Do not worry, the device identifier by Apple is rarely used anyways, usually ad networks identify the user either by fingerprinting or the app developer willingly giving away personal information like e-mail or login information.

Curious how you fingerprint an iOS device? I assume you can’t pull MAC, installed apps or anything that would be unique per phone owner.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#233

Post by adrr »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #181
filleokus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, what is "their own tracking services"? iAd is dead since long, the only ads they serve are Apple Search Ads right? Is there any evidence/suggestion that they are using usage data from outside the App Store to target ASA? The promo-page doesn't seem to indicate that at least [1]. I mean, still in iOS 14, Google can use your data from e.g Google Maps / Chrome to target ads in the Youtube app on the same device wit…

Facebook’s top ad business on iOS is for app installs. Their cross-app tracking is how they demonstrate that the ad resulted in app sales. Apple is cutting that off here. As you mention, Apple’s competing ad service is also for app installs.

Apple will actually hurt themselves with this change. The apps that can afford to advertise have a paid component to generate revenues. Apple taxes this revenue at 30%. I don’t get why they are going after FB when they aren’t a threat and Social media is the reason to people upgrade your phone to get a better camera. Not to mention the revenue FB drives in App Store purchases.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#234

Post by wwright »

cactus2093 wrote: post #177
hinkley wrote: post #122

The abuser playbook really is pretty standard. I'm kind of surprised we don't have classes on how to avoid being on the receiving end. Push the person until they crack, then call for discretion and dialog about the 'problem' so you don't get what's coming to you. But that would probably conflict tremendously with the corporate interests that inform our public education system.

You kind of took it off the deep at there with the last sentence. Sure the Trump dept of education has been especially bad, but you can't blame all of the past decades of US public education mediocrity on corporate interests. Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

The education system literally exists to serve corporate America.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#235

Post by renewiltord »

pseudalopex wrote: post #228
renewiltord wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We respected it in our ad pixel server. DNTs didn't get tracked, just returned 200 blank, no logs generated. It didn't matter, though, in the end. Didn't get us positive/negative attention, users didn't really care, browsers stopped supporting it, and then it was just dead code. Left the guard clause in, in the end, because of some misguided need to "do the right thing". It's just dead code. I'd just get rid of it no…

Why is Facebook alarmed about users getting a choice if users are happy to be tracked?

Because forced decision making is a barrier to tool use. For instance, imagine if every time you opened your IDE it asked you which language you're going to type in. You like your IDE to be work best with the language you're working in, so that's good. You're adding user choice here, so that's good. But the outcome is bad. Why is that?

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#236

Post by jxramos »

hinkley wrote: post #122

The abuser playbook really is pretty standard. I'm kind of surprised we don't have classes on how to avoid being on the receiving end. Push the person until they crack, then call for discretion and dialog about the 'problem' so you don't get what's coming to you. But that would probably conflict tremendously with the corporate interests that inform our public education system.

I've heard it said that the best way to answer the abusive party is with "that's your problem"

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#237

Post by justapassenger »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #158
justapassenger wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Adtech giants need advertisers to believe they need targeted advertising, because targeted advertising relies on mass data collection only they are capable of getting. If people realized the necessity of using Google and Facebook's mass user data was... a complete lie... any old ad firm could compete with their businesses. Targeted advertising is as old as advertising. Why do you have cloud companies advertising on…

> Why do you have cloud companies advertising on the billboards in San Francisco, but not in Beatty, Nevada? To be fair, I think I should specify "user-targeted" advertising. Targeting by content/placement location isn't privacy-invading by nature. :)

Targeting by placement and location are just proxy for user targeted ads, due to lack of better abilities. Gives you very broad targeting criteria - like San Francisco is likely to have people interested in cloud. Cosmopolitan is likely to have middle age women readers, etc. User-targeted advertising gives you much higher granularity, which makes ads campaigns more effective for advertisers.

Is privacy invading targeted advertising a concern and something that needs more debate? Yes. Can it be creepy and cause harm in some cases? Yes. Should world be driven by advertisers ROI? No. Are user-targeted ads ineffective? Hell no.

But also, just because something is concerning and bad for some aspects of the life (like privacy), it doesn't mean it should be wiped out of the floor, as cheaper and effective advertising does help to grow any capitalist economy. Trade-offs are needed (same as we don't ban oil, even tho it's bad for environment), and it'll become more regulated (either self-regulated by industry, or by governments), but it's not going to disappear.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#238

Post by samatman »

typeformer wrote: post #203
reaperducer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Or unions. While teachers unions have been great for teachers, they've been lousy for teaching.

I disagree, unions give teachers power in a system that constantly takes their labor for granted

In other words unions are... great for teachers?

You're conspicuously silent here on the "lousy for teaching" clause.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#239

Post by vmh1928 »

wwright wrote: post #234
cactus2093 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kind of took it off the deep at there with the last sentence. Sure the Trump dept of education has been especially bad, but you can't blame all of the past decades of US public education mediocrity on corporate interests. Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

The education system literally exists to serve corporate America.

Pretty sure the education system exists to serve the education system. Big Ed is an industry unto itself, you don't need the nefarious corporate America behind it to make it a money-extracting cabal. $120k in student loans and a liberal arts degree in French Literature from a big-name college? The college bears no risk if the consumer of their product cannot pay on the loan. Hard to see how that serves corporate America.

Re: Preparing Our Partners for iOS 14

#240

Post by samatman »

gowld wrote: post #214
amluto wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newspapers had plenty of ad revenue before tracking. Apps could be monetized by ads that are targeted based on the in-app content only.

Then why did they almost all go bankrupt?

Craigslist, basically.

Classified ads were the difference between profit and loss for a lot of local newspapers. Craigslist devastated that market in a matter of years.

Commercial ads were doing fine, and I bet there are a lot of local businesses who wish there was still a local newspaper they could advertise in. But it wasn't enough.

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