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US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

torrentfreak.com

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Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#231

Post by buzer »

tpush wrote: post #196
nfriedly wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious, so I went and looked up what a Red Notice is: > What is a Red Notice? [...] Information related to the crime they are wanted for, which can typically be murder, rape, child abuse or armed robbery. [1] Using it to go after people who share movies for free seems like a gross abuse of the system. [1]: https://www.interpol.int/en/How-we-work/Notices/Red-Notices

Nonsense. If you read your own link red notices are simply issued for wanted criminals likely to flee to another country; what crime was committed is largely irrelevant. This is opposed to yellow notices, which are for missing persons.

According to the rules of Interpol, it should only be used for serious crimes. There should be some kind of non-exhaustive list, but it's probably not public.

Article 83 @ https://www.interpol.int/en/content/download/5694/file/24%20...

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#232

Post by weare138 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #67
xhkkffbf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say as an artist who has watched his hard work being openly pirated, I disagree. Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. If these cretins want to distribute art for free, they can get off their butts and make their own. No one is stopping them. The world needs more voices, but piracy encourages these loafers to do nothing.

> Piracy destroys jobs, opportunity and initiative. So what? Let them be destroyed. I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM. There is no other way for them to enforce copyright in the 21st century so that's exactly what they'll try to do. They won't rest until every computer available to the public is lock…

So what? Let them be destroyed.

I'd rather sacrifice some jobs than watch gigantic media conglomerates take over the computing industry and destroy our computing freedom with their DRM.

Honestly I've never come across a study that says piracy even has a significant impact on the media industry, in fact some studies found the opposite. People that like something they pirated, which is not many people really, will usually go buy it.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#233

Post by sjy »

abakker wrote: post #126
matheusmoreira wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which single person is going to pay $1M or $50 million for a song or movie? Why not crowdfund those amounts instead? That way, all creators get paid before the work even starts and the result can be safely released into the public domain. We need to develop alternative business models like this in order to replace copyright. Cultural works must be treated like an investment.

that might be a great idea, except this thread started with the blanket statement that we should all just steal it, not invest at all. Maybe cultural investment can be coordinated, but until then, I think the solution should be for the distributed act of paying for what you want will be preferable. The less-than-optimal implementation of copyright doesn't justify theft.

If you agree that copyright is less-than-optimal, but you don’t think that civil disobedience of copyright laws is helpful or ethical, then what suggestion do you have for reforming the system? To my mind, “less-than-optimal” is an understatement of the problems with the copyright model, particularly as applied to libraries and academic research.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#234

Post by nybble41 »

pessimizer wrote: post #199
nybble41 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lobbying" just means presenting your position on an issue. Money can help with making a persuasive presentation, to a point, but lobbying per se is never the cause of the problem. You can blame that on the people with way too much power who listen to the lobbyists and do as they ask—instead of actually doing their jobs and representing the interests of all their constituents.

This is an extremely linear way of looking at public corruption. It's all well and good to say that politicians should act morally, but if you don't do what you're told, you won't get the money, and you won't keep the job. You'll be replaced by somebody who does what they're told. We're filtering for trash. It's weird that you're even combining this with a defense of cash payments to politicians from special interest…

> … if you don't do what you're told … you won't keep the job.

Whether you keep your job is determined by who your constituents vote for, not by lobbyists. Perhaps voters are sometimes too easily swayed by campaign spending, but that's a separate issue from lobbying.

> It's weird that you're even combining this with a defense of cash payments to politicians from special interests.

You misread. Spending more on your presentation can make it more persuasive because (up to a point, as I said) the end result is better researched and more polished in general compared to what can be produced on a shoestring budget. I was not suggesting that lobbyists ought to bolster their arguments with cash payments to politicians. Frankly I don't really care whether bribes are exchanged so long as the end result serves the constituents as a whole and not just the lobbyists. Accepting a bribe to advance lobbyists' interests at the expense of one's constituents would be an obvious example of corruption. As would doing the same out of personal preference without any exchange of favors.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#235

Post by [deleted] »

pessimizer wrote: post #199
nybble41 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lobbying" just means presenting your position on an issue. Money can help with making a persuasive presentation, to a point, but lobbying per se is never the cause of the problem. You can blame that on the people with way too much power who listen to the lobbyists and do as they ask—instead of actually doing their jobs and representing the interests of all their constituents.

This is an extremely linear way of looking at public corruption. It's all well and good to say that politicians should act morally, but if you don't do what you're told, you won't get the money, and you won't keep the job. You'll be replaced by somebody who does what they're told. We're filtering for trash. It's weird that you're even combining this with a defense of cash payments to politicians from special interest…

[deleted]

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#236

Post by GekkePrutser »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #178
f154hfds wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your view, how do digital content creators such as artists make a living? I am honestly curious. Are you saying that the entire gaming industry should be open source and sustain itself purely on peoples' charity?

I don't claim to have an alternative, just that the copyright model is broken. Perhaps crowdfunding and patronage will be the answer. Services like Kickstarter and Patreon.

Those aren't perfect either.

Kickstarter makes it too easy to fail without consequence. Even big names like Neil Stephenson did so (with his swordfighting game, turned out the money ran out and the game wasn't much fun so they just gave up). I don't doubt his sincerity but this model is not ready for the masses. The masses want to buy products, not promises.

Patreon on the other hand, makes it too easy to stay forever in alpha, the money will keep coming in while there's interest and eventually it wanes and the author moves on to something else. But the product never actually gets finished. In the mean time over the many months more money will get spent on it by each 'customer' than on an actual finished product.

Another big name that's currently in this situation is Star Citizen (which was a bit of combo of both models, with continual crowdfunding). Who knows when that'll ever be finished. They certainly have more than enough money but what's lacking is the role of the publisher in the traditional model, who keeps the project on track because they want to see RoI eventually.

The crowdfunding models are great sometimes but they're seriously lacking on this point.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#237

Post by sjy »

thinkloop wrote: post #131
matheusmoreira wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which single person is going to pay $1M or $50 million for a song or movie? Why not crowdfund those amounts instead? That way, all creators get paid before the work even starts and the result can be safely released into the public domain. We need to develop alternative business models like this in order to replace copyright. Cultural works must be treated like an investment.

> Why not crowdfund those amounts instead? That way, all creators get paid before the work even starts and the result can be safely released into the public domain. Then shouldn't every business have to follow the same rules? Making a "copy" of an iPhone costs $20 or $30, should Apple have to crowdsource their factory and IP then sell iPhones by weight or value of raw material? Why do content creators get screwed bec…

What prevents competitors from manufacturing an iPhone for $20 or $30, or even $200 or $300? Not the copyright laws that stop you from pirating movies. Other forms of IP such as patents and trade secrets are more important. These are not generalisations of copyright, they’re distinct concepts with very different rules, and criticisms of copyright do not necessarily apply to them.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#238

Post by anon9001 »

hesdeadjim wrote: post #217
anon9001 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not claiming a right. I'm claiming an opportunity. Those bytes are just sitting there waiting for me to click download. I think the better question is: what are you going to do to stop me from downloading whatever I want?

I imagine these people under indictment thought the same way as you.

No, that's the distinction I'm trying to draw here. Lots of people, like you and me, routinely consume pirated content. It's not always torrents either, tons of unlicensed stuff shows up all the time on youtube. Do you validate all copyrights on all services before you watch?

The people under indictment wanted to have reputation in the scene, so badly that they were willing to commit a lot of crimes that are way more severe than watching pirated content.

I think the takeaway is that if you're torrenting content, you're probably fine. But if you're running a pre with unreleased content, the law takes that pretty seriously.

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#239

Post by ChickeNES »

biotinker wrote: post #211
hesdeadjim wrote: post #189

Vast majority of comments here are hilarious. Piracy is a crime, deal with it. You don't have a right to content made for a profit without paying for it. If you don't agree with the price or the distribution method, don't consume the content, problem solved. The argument that resources should be spent on "real crime" is equally silly. These organizations can and do put immense resources into all other forms of crime.…

A huge number of the people on this site, myself included, already voluntarily donate huge amounts of time and money to free and open source software and hardware- they are already choosing to give away for free what others might otherwise pirate. No one is disputing that piracy is a crime. They are pointing out the difference between the fact of what is, and their opinion of what ought be.

> No one is disputing that piracy is a crime.

Then why can I scroll up the page and find multiple instances of people saying it isn't?

Re: US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos

#240

Post by holidayacct »

dane-pgp wrote: post #197
scollet wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't eBay execs gang stalk a journalist? I'm not saying your point is invalid and I'm not validating gp, but I'm sure evidential gang stalking can exist outside of delusion.

That's a fair point about the eBay employees[1]. I think that the "gang stalking" theory becomes delusional when the supposed target is someone who isn't a threat to a multi-billion dollar company (or government), and when the supposed target claims that their harassers are using mind control and other pseudo-scientific means. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21291666/ebay-employees-a...

You're delusional if you think individual people aren't threats to governments of multi-billion dollar corporations.

There are people with information that no one wants leaked because the information is incriminating without proper context or someone may have made a massive mistake and not known what the consequences were at the time. There are people all over the place that have to make decisions where both choices might be illegal.

There are powerful CEOs and politicians who are afraid of being outed for not being what they say they are. Some of them are simply paranoid that they will be outed as incompetent. You'd be shocked at how many CEOs are terrified of people finding out they just got lucky and applied for the right jobs at the right times. They walk around in complete and total fear that someone will find out they don't know a single thing about how their company is run or that they are banging half the people in their company.

There are startups that are essentially cults and the founders use cult tactics in order to keep an entourage of employees who are loyal to the point that they will sacrifice their dignity and personal safety for the company. If you don't believe in the founder and the company they purge you because they are afraid someone is going to figure out their business may border on illegality. These guys do the same thing, their employees run around harassing anyone who doesn't believe in their company and the founder.

This happens all the time.

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