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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

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231–240 of 1001 posts

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#231
Personally, I'm less concerned about gyms. People in gyms are adults and can theoretically stay 6-ft away from each other and wear a mask. I've seen high-impact classes like kick-boxing being held outside in parks for better airflow. Driving activities underground however, has well understood unintended consequences of causing violence and disregard of health rules, as we know from prohibition in the 20's and the drug war since the 70's.

The uniquely American issue, is with bars and clubs being closed. In the land of big houses, everyone knows someone with a bar in their backyard or basement. Keeping bars closed now, when everyone is fed up with the social isolation (sorry, Zoom doesn't cut it) just means actual underground speakeasies serving alcohol aka house parties. Where dedicated gym rats aren't drinking alcohol at the same time they're at the gym (it hurts gainz), and are can be more responsible for their actions, people on alcohol can't. I'm not saying that to excuse drunk people's behaviors, what I'm saying is that trying to get drunk people to stay 6-ft apart and wear a mask is an exercise in futility.

Since people are gonna be drinking anyway, especially during a pandemic, and a recession, and in the face of great uncertainty, and on the cusp of a presidential election, what's needed is to open the bars, but require patrons scan-in via phone app using the bluetooth-based contact tracing (PEPP-PT), or else face suspension of liquor license. By making it required at bars, you get around some of the privacy issues since those that don't want to, can just not go to bars. Using bluetooth-based tracing gets around issues of using GPS-based tracking, and also helps amplify the effectiveness of an under-funded contact tracing corps by providing a technology based solution.

This is imperfect, but perfect is the enemy of the good, and even done imperfectly, contact tracing can very successfully drive Re (the local effective value calculated from a diseases' R0) down below 1, at which point the disease doesn't continue to spread and the pandemic can be controlled. For a disease like COVID-19 with an R0 of 2.5, it doesn't take too much to drive it down.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#232
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

You can maintain a very healthy body using only body weight exercises, with practically no weights at all from the comfort of your home. With youtube and the like, you have access to near infinite workouts as well. Not having access to a gym is not a sufficient reason to be out of shape.

Yet gyms exist.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#233

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is…

Introverts vs extroverts. Humans are social animals. Socialization is a basic human need. It is much harder for some people to stay inside and not socialize than others.

We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize or see or do anything. I continue to obey the orders, but I totally get why some people are starting to crack.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#234

Did the "shutdown normal gym" mean that patrons would be violating whatever policies forced the gym to shutdown in the first place? If so, that really bothers me. Any excess contagion would endanger everyone, not just the gym users. Please consider reporting the details to the appropriate authorities. EDIT: If someone is inclined to downvote this comment, I'd be very grateful for a clarification why (comment or DM).…

You're being down-voted because snitches get stitches. Don't be the neighborhood rat.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the landlord still expects rent to be due.

That's because the bank still expects the mortgage to be paid.

Strikes me the gym and the bank could probably come to some kind of arrangement?

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#236
post #14

Unlike actual prohibition, the social agreement behind "lockdowns" is subject to time contingencies. The activities considered "essential" grow as time passes. While there are nominal categories of "essential" defined by community/political leaders, that contract depends on agreement. Since each person's conception of "essential" is different, as time passes "essential" grows exponentially instead of linearly.

"Essential" is probably the right word, but I think "urgent" has a more accurate meaning. People urgently need groceries, being unable to buy groceries for a few weeks would be a big problem.

Some of the people who work in grocery stores commute via bike/car. Their bikes/cars will probably keep working for a while, but after a few months to a year they might need to visit a shop. The need for bike/car repair eventually becomes urgent.

Though, I'm not sure where hair salons fit into this framework. Most people have the means to cut their own hair, they just won't like how it looks.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. It's not about you. It's about everyone else. How can someone be so selfish and self-absorbed that they think their "muscle mass" is more important than the health of hundreds or thousands of other people? I know this question may violate some HN policy, but I can…

It's been a while since I've seen mention of actuarial analyses of the pandemic vs lockdowns. Could millions of people with muscle atrophy cause more economic harm?

Lockdown doesn't mean muscle atrophy. You can still do a lot at home even without equipment. Besides, if you want to continue to assume it causes muscle atrophy, then compare a population with muscle atrophy to a population with (likely) permanent organ damage due to a vascular disease (covid).

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#238
post #183
post #3

While trying to buy workout equipment off craig's list I was solicited twice to join "speakeasy" gyms. They had ads for a bunch of gear and when I inquired they sent me a detailed response on working out in their private gym. One was a large neighborhood garage that offered solo time by the hour, one was a shutdown normal gym. Pretty expensive too!

Are these speakeasy gyms? Seems like a solo room and a much less crowded gym would both adhere to distancing policies. Seems rude to existing customers to set up a new private gym in an existing gym space, though.

a "speakeasy gym" could very well be a gym that adheres to COVID-19 guidelines but doesn't adhere to the various regular gym/business licensing rules.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. It's not about you. It's about everyone else. How can someone be so selfish and self-absorbed that they think their "muscle mass" is more important than the health of hundreds or thousands of other people? I know this question may violate some HN policy, but I can…

> It's not about you. It's about everyone else.

Sadly, this is the source of your downvotes. For so many (even here on HN of all places), it's all about ME. My freedom. My choices. My comfort. My convenience. My need to eat at that restaurant or buy that ranch dressing. My absolute right to do squats next to some random person at a gym. Anything that gets in the way of my freedom to do every little thing I want to do any time I want to do it is bad.

We're not talking about genocide here or shredding the constitution. We're talking about sensible and temporary public health policy. But no, I just have to go get my hair done.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#240

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

"Totally illegal underground makeshift hair place" I'm confused, if the participants wear a mask, will the virus be transmitted or not?

Masks aren't 100% effective so being in close contact with someone for such a long time (a haircut for women can take much longer than a typical trim for men) carries a high risk of transmission from an asymptomatic carrier.
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