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Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

timjrobinson.com

231–240 of 1001 posts

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#231

I definitely need to research this topic more, but after reading everyone's arguments for and against UBI, I think maybe the right solution is somewhere right in the middle. Instead of giving everyone $X,000 a month, what if there was some sort of secondary currency or credits that all Americans receive (call them Patriot bucks or whatever) that could be used for necessities like food, public transportation, etc. I d…

> [ ] You have reinvented welfare coupons but worse

> [ ] You have reinvented welfare coupons better, but that's still no justification

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#232

I definitely need to research this topic more, but after reading everyone's arguments for and against UBI, I think maybe the right solution is somewhere right in the middle. Instead of giving everyone $X,000 a month, what if there was some sort of secondary currency or credits that all Americans receive (call them Patriot bucks or whatever) that could be used for necessities like food, public transportation, etc. I d…

Shadow currencies never work. If doesn’t work for food stamps and it doesn’t work for WoW gold.

There’s no reason to tell people what to spend their money on. Generally, folks are better at determining how to spend money for themselves.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#233

A UBI paid for with a carbon tax would both save us from the worst consequences of global warming and stimulate the economy. It's hard to find a rational excuse for not doing it. Planet Money did a great episode on this idea over 7 years ago: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/07/12/201502003/epis... They did a followup 5 years later: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/07/18/630267782/epis... It seems like…

I don't see how this would really work. A carbon tax in an ideal situation is just a consumption tax. This means that it's the consumer that pays it. Rich people don't eat more food nor do they drive dozens of cars at once. If we want this carbon tax to offset our greenhouse emissions then that means it will necessarily disproportionately impact poor people. And then you want to turn around and pay that money back to…

Rich people may not eat more food, but they may eat food that is shipped in from all over the world. They don't drive dozens of cars at once, but they do have lots of things delivered, and tend not to take public transport as much. They also tend to fly a lot more (which is a big source of emissions), and live in big houses with lots of lights and area to heat and cool.

I agree with your point that a carbon tax would not serve the purpose of a UBI. Now I'm gonna go off topic a bit and focus on carbon taxes.

I volunteer with Citizens Climate Lobby. The bill we're trying to get through the House of Representatives, H.R. 763 aka the Energy Innovation Act, is a carbon tax, but it's not like you imagine, I think. It taxes fossil fuels at the point of production, and therefore allows normal market mechanisms to adjust the prices of everything. No change to individual tax bills. Some things would get more expensive, but we would all get a check in the mail to offset. If you pollute more than average, the check wouldn't make up for the increased prices, but if you pollute less, you'd benefit. The change in prices will shift consumption away from the emissions-intensive goods and services, toward those that are greener.

The poor would disproportionately benefit from this. Not just financially -- carbon emissions and pollution that affects health are of course closely linked, and it's poor people who suffer the most from pollution, because they can't afford to move somewhere else to escape it.

It's not just about individual behavior -- companies would feel the same shift in incentives. Another way to think of the tax, from an economist's point of view, is that it's just correctly pricing a market externality.

The weird thing about a carbon tax like this is that a majority of Americans support it, but most of us don't think that it's a majority! It's already popular, we just have to convince Congress.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving everyone the same amount is symbolically useful, because it's a way in which all citizens are equal. Everyone gets the same amount and what can be fairer than that? But, practically, anything a UBI plan gives you can be undone with an equal and opposite tax. The net effect after taxes is what matters and it's going to redistribute money or there's no point in doing it. Some people pay more taxes than others an…

As a landlord, knowing everyone can afford higher rent means rent increases for everyone!

That depends on the competition. If the market rate doesn't go up, you might have trouble filling vacancies.

It seems that rents are going down a bit in San Francisco because some people who can suddenly work remotely are moving out (among other reasons). UBI is an income that you can take with you wherever you go, much like social security, so it's likely to make living in cheaper places more attractive.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#235

Why give free money to everyone? Clearly a rich person doesn’t need a monthly check from government... Milton Friedman long ago proposed a negative income tax to replace means-tested welfare programs. Essentially, people below a certain income threshold would receive money which scales to a maximum the closer their income approaches zero. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax I do think people radically…

What UBI enables, I believe (and same with universal healthcare and other social safety nets) is lowest barriers to entry. I have no doubt that some will not do anything productive with the moneys it’s pretty much beside the point.

The point is to have a guaranteed floor for all in society, much like the idea of bankruptcy (before the conservative demonization of the idea particularly in the 1990s and Bush era, in the USA) it’s a way to ensure people can start over or continue to build momentum without fear of being homeless, starving and/or being unable to provide the basics for their family or themselves

This lowers the barrier of entry for people to free themselves of being shackled to giant corporations or dead end jobs just for “security”

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#237

I know these are anecdotes but I already heard several cases from my circle of friends and families where they just chose not to work because of unemployment checks. Instead of practicing music or learning programming or doing something productive during their period of unemployment, they decided to watch Netflix and play games all day. Creating is hard work, studying is hard work. Just like having information and on…

The current benefit requires the person to be unemployed. UBI does not. That’s a huge difference in incentives.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#238

Why give free money to everyone? Clearly a rich person doesn’t need a monthly check from government... Milton Friedman long ago proposed a negative income tax to replace means-tested welfare programs. Essentially, people below a certain income threshold would receive money which scales to a maximum the closer their income approaches zero. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax I do think people radically…

Because of equality. Giving everyone a cut makes sure everyone is participated in the program.

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#239

I feel like this is the perfect example why everyone should at some point be required to start a business. Because some of these ideas stem from to many people not understand the economy in a real sense because they are always workers and see the world through that lens.

yeah, if only more folks realized how well the system was working for the people closer to the top, they'd happily just march to their death instead of mildly requesting improved circumstances

Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0

#240

I know these are anecdotes but I already heard several cases from my circle of friends and families where they just chose not to work because of unemployment checks. Instead of practicing music or learning programming or doing something productive during their period of unemployment, they decided to watch Netflix and play games all day. Creating is hard work, studying is hard work. Just like having information and on…

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