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The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

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Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#231

That was good article and I think something really needs to be done to make content moderation more humane. This quote from the article “It gets to a point where you can eat your lunch while watching a video of someone dying. … But at the end of the day, you still have to be human.” reminded me of a similar article published by WIRED six years ago [1]. Eight years after the fact, Jake Swearingen can still recall the…

> ... make content moderation more humane. Modest proposal: Find people who enjoy horrific content, and have them rate it. Then black-hole whatever they rate as most extreme. I was is a dark place after 9/11, both from the trauma of that, and some personal issues. So I spent considerable time on Rotten, Something Awful, and worse. Based on that experience, many would likely do content moderation for free.

It'd be very cool if someone who thinks that this is a horrible idea (and there must be some) would explain why. Just sayin'.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that suggest then that the "ideal" way to do it is a very part time job then with high volume? Like say 5 hours a week. It would be a scheduling and logistical nightmare of course but it would give more "dispersion time" for trauma.

I'd be interested to see if the tooling around moderation could also be improved. For example, could the images start heavily blurred, with a circle of clarity that opens when you click. Or something like that, which would harm throughput, but be more humane.

This is a very interesting idea. It could reveal only a portion and see how often that was enough for the moderator to pass judgement.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#233
post #2

Can we build better AI off of the data these moderators have generated to make their lives easier? Can you crowdsource the moderation task to double check what the ai is flagging?

> Can we build better AI Nope. That's what the people in charge of our social media companies keep trying, over and over, and it doesn't work at all. AI-moderation is like the Ring is to Golem for them. They can't accept that "cheap and fair" moderation isn't currently possible. > Can you crowdsource the moderation task This is the clear answer, imo, and it isn't obvious to me why these C-level execs avoid it. If I h…

I don’t think Gollum had a Hebrew letter on his back...

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give or take a live-streamed Christchurch massacre?

Yes. One disastrous livestream in the history of the feature, with further controls added almost immediately as a result.

Neither Youtube nor Facebook currently are able to filter all these incidents. This happened after Christchurch:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1853804/mass-sh...

I could swear there was also a Christchurch copy-cat attack in Europe, but I can't remember sufficient details about it to find an article. Perhaps that one wasn't streamed on FB.

I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of Facebook atrocities (I closed my account nearly a decade ago), but without vetting content before it goes live, I don't see how they will entirely prevent these videos from reaching some users.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#235

That was good article and I think something really needs to be done to make content moderation more humane. This quote from the article “It gets to a point where you can eat your lunch while watching a video of someone dying. … But at the end of the day, you still have to be human.” reminded me of a similar article published by WIRED six years ago [1]. Eight years after the fact, Jake Swearingen can still recall the…

> ... make content moderation more humane. Modest proposal: Find people who enjoy horrific content, and have them rate it. Then black-hole whatever they rate as most extreme. I was is a dark place after 9/11, both from the trauma of that, and some personal issues. So I spent considerable time on Rotten, Something Awful, and worse. Based on that experience, many would likely do content moderation for free.

That sounds like a great idea, not only to just black hole the content, but to have people who are less prone to have adverse side effects from watching such material be moderators.

Thanks for sharing that part about being in that kind of place, I have a feeling many could relate.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#236

That was good article and I think something really needs to be done to make content moderation more humane. This quote from the article “It gets to a point where you can eat your lunch while watching a video of someone dying. … But at the end of the day, you still have to be human.” reminded me of a similar article published by WIRED six years ago [1]. Eight years after the fact, Jake Swearingen can still recall the…

It would be great if there were a way to make content moderation more humane, but perhaps this is like saying that it would be great if we could make hospital emergency room work more humane. It is unavoidably traumatic, and ER staff are known to detach and use dark humor as a coping mechanism. Content moderation is a similarly noble and difficult profession.

I think that you are wrong in general, but that parallel is right on point.

The root of the problem, which is rarely mentioned in these discussions, is that many people enjoying comfortable living conditions believe themselves to be “pure-blooded” and unable to deal with “unclean” things because of the possible “traumas”. (What is an ideal person free of “traumas”, anyway? A vegetable stoned on drugs?) You can easily see here the resemblance of a old time countess complaining about her “nerves” while her serfs do all the dirty work. Is there a natural law that says a poor grunt is bound to clean the junk from what you see on the website? Do it yourself.

The same happens with medical, law enforcement, and other professions. They are considered “special” jobs for “special” people (which is not true, the one who defines it like that is “special”). Then, any worries and doubts are neutralized by convenient “but it's their profession, they chose it, they are paid for it, etc.” This creates a stupid rift between “us” and “them”, and affects how both sides reason about themselves.

The resulting imbalance is routinely abused. Social networks are competing in presenting a rose-colored walled fantasy to their human cattle to increase yield — everyone can see they use “The Matrix” as a business plan. This creates a lot of shitty jobs where people waste their emotional capacity to make others pleased, not unlike in prostitution. On the other hand, media is hooking the softened consumer with the sensationalist outrage bait about maniacs, wars, corruption, presumed orgies, etc. To makes things worse, the limits to all of that are set not by some moral standards or concern about someone's well-being, as it is often implied, but by advertisement contracts. The bureaucratic machine decides what is “suitable” for the visitors. For example, this makes most of the talk around “Free The Nipple” moot: there is no undercover agents of patriarchy to battle, it's advertisers who bring money and judge what is unwanted “sexual content” (some might say it's a perfect example of capitalist oppression — cue “L'Internationale”).

Even this discussion is full of overreacting people. No, the video on your screen is not as “horrible, horrible” as experiencing something firsthand, nor the pain of the tortured can be compared to the pain of the random witnesses on the internet (if we don't count their own wild fantasies). If it happens, then it's no good to pretend it's not. Who knows, it may even make you think. All in all, humans don't show a lot of originality in what they produce, so the number of things you can expect to see is quite limited. I can only conclude by reiterating that knowledge is power, ignorance is bliss, and there's a lot of people who'd like to benefit from others' ignorance in many ways.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#237
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a non-solution. What you’re proposing is not just shutting down social networks, it’s shutting down any website that involves user content, anything that allows photo/video upload, comments, or any kind of user interaction. That’s impossible. You point out that public safety jobs are view more “worth it,” and certainly they are, but that logic brings up the question of who judges what job is worth undergoing t…

I’m actually not proposing shutting down any website that allows uploaded content, just large / public sites that require this sort of moderation. Not every site gets this stuff uploaded to it. The more private the network, the less need for this kind of company-led moderation. As far as “worth it” goes, some people have to be exposed to it so long as we have law enforcement (but I’m certainly open to alternatives he…

Think like a legislator. How do you write this regulation?

> [shut down] just large / public sites that require this sort of moderation

Let’s say I start a restaurant review website that allows comments and photos to be uploaded. It does modest business for a while, I now have 50 employees. I’m following the law because my site isn’t big enough to violate this “no user content for big prominent websites” law.

Soon, it becomes big, like a major competitor to Yelp, and I’ve got 1,000 employees. But suddenly, this new law kicks in that says that I have to stop accepting uploads because my site is too high profile. Now, I lay everyone off and go out of business.

This just isn’t a workable solution, at least not in the particular way you’re proposing it be constructed.

And really, you’re asking the second largest advertiser on the web (Facebook), a Fortune 50 company, to just pack up its bags and shut down.

It’s not like I love Facebook or anything, but I’m sure their 45,000 employees wouldn’t be happy about that.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And again, you run into the problem where nobody wants their website to work like that. In fact, limiting the person's audience really only works with facebook's system where people post content specifically to their friends. Other sites like Hacker News, Reddit, youtube, and various other forums aren't even designed with the concept of friends that are the sole consumers of your content. You're specifically posting…

>And again, you run into the problem where nobody wants their website to work like that. Cancer patients don't want chemo, but it's better than dying, some might say. >Other sites like Hacker News, Reddit, youtube, and various other forums aren't even designed with the concept of friends that are the sole consumers of your content. Right, which is why those sites (besides HackerNews) would require slightly different…

> Cancer patients don't want chemo, but it's better than dying, some might say.

What good is chemo if your patients refuse it?

> Reddit: Limit subreddits to 500 participants at most. Eliminate the number next to upvotes.

This doesn't stop people from posting disturbing content, and it destroys reddit's entire model. This solution doesn't work.

> Verify accounts.

In what way? Do you want to abolish anonymity? Because I can tell you right now that most of us aren't interested in such a solution.

> Limit posting.

In what way? Throttling posting speed? Sure if you just lessen the amount of content overall there will also be less disturbing content... but there's still disturbing content that needs to be moderated.

> This is not any feature inherent to the Web, it's a function of sites that purposefully link together and allow people to rapidly post information.

The default state of the internet is publicly viewable information. Thus it's an inherent feature that you can access almost anything out there.

> Pre-social media

As far as I'm aware, there was no such time. There have almost always been bulletin boards, forums, chat rooms, image/file sharing sites, and other forms of social media.

> there will be less content to moderate

Dividing up the content doesn't reduce the amount of it that needs to be moderated any more than cutting a cake reduces the amount of cake.

> Elimination of advertisers and the implementation of cost (as a form of friction), I think, would also go a long way. Cost per post would be ideal.

This just shuts people out according to income bracket. It reduces the total population, but I doubt it helps reduce the fraction of that population that are interested in posting and sharing disturbing content. It's just throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#239
post #31
post #25

It's probably a bit controversial to say this, but haven't large sites had to deal with these problems for years by the time the likes of Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/Instagram/whatever came around? It's obviously horrible doing this as a job and it's obviously a bit more common on Facebook than say, a large old school internet forum, but... at least in this case people are paid to do this. Reddit mods and old school for…

I think it's fair to say the sheer quantity has changed since Facebook first came around (FB predates smartphones for one!) I also think part of the objection here is around off-shoring. It's similar to other complaints about off-shored jobs: we're farming out unpleasant work to people that get paid less and have much less support (e.g. mental health).

FB does not predate smartphones, I was using a Treo 180 with a browser and gprs data service in 2002. Email client, ssh, lots of stuff.

Re: The trauma of Facebook’s content moderators

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever hang out with an ER staffer? Most of their workload is bullshit. People with colds and sore throats, depressing people using ER as primary care, assholes using 911 to score Medicaid cab vouchers. And at any time, any number of people can show up with any kind of personal tragedies from stokes to various traumas. My sister quit after a 13 year old bled out from a gsw, and she walked out of the room and got kicked…

Bite one inmate's ear...shame on you. Bite a 2nd inmate's ear...shame on him. Bite a 3rd inmate's ear...that's fricking badass.

Please don't do this here.
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