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India, Jio, and the Four Internets

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Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#231

Post by naruvimama »

econcon wrote: post #187
bigpumpkin wrote: post #4

"Today friends, I have great pride in announcing that Jio has designed and developed a complete 5G solution from scratch. This will enable us to launch a world-class 5G service in India using 100% homegrown technology and solution. " Wow, that's amazing. Maybe the US and the UK can also import this 5G tech in our networks? I'm getting tired of ATT's fake 5GE.

Obviously he misled people. His firm can deploy cloud native soft infrastructure and data centers for 5G but not the hardware. And here too they are any special as Rukuten already does it. They still have the license technology from the vendors even if they manufacture it on their own. And why will vendor license it to them, and if they'll have to - they'll do so at the same profit margin which they'd make from direc…

That perplexed me too.

There are other possibilities though

Completely different standards that can compete with 5G, improbable but there have been alternate projects that have been worked on in the past that never made it to the standards.

SDR except the MINO antennas. Jio isn't entirely new as a pioneer in teleco, and their pockets are big enough to bring in talent or buy companies. I am hoping for the best.

When you want your IP to be part of the standard that you want to push to the entire world, there must be some limitations on your IP. Limited period, open licensing terms and reasonable price. Otherwise, there is nothing stopping a government from declaring the patent invalid or bring in anti-competitive laws.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#232

Post by rendall »

RestlessMind wrote: post #147
rendall wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the key regulatory initiatives either haven't proven effective in curbing US giants' powers (eg. GDPR)" Would you mind expanding on that? Perhaps you have information that I do not, but from what I understand, large US tech companies with a presence in Europe do abide by the GDPR, which includes data privacy audits and large fines for non-compliance.

Even though they abide by GDPR, neither their market share nor their business model has changed. Neither do we see any new companies (or new business models) gaining market share from the US based ones. In that sense, GDPR has not curbed US giants' power. So what did GDPR achieve in practice? (Or maybe, you and I just had different expectations from GDPR to begin with).

"In that sense, GDPR has not curbed US giants' power. So what did GDPR achieve in practice?"

I don't think GDPR was ever about about curbing tech giants' power nor changing their business model. It was always only about protecting the personal data of EU residents.

Assuming the tech giants' business models do rely on indiscriminate use of user data, and that the GDPR does interfere with that, it applies only to EU residents, which I assume comprises a relatively small market-share. For a fundamental shift in business model, the US would have to adopt similar measures for its own residents, but the political climate would not allow for that, I don't think.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#233

Post by totetsu »

vijaybritto wrote: post #205
econcon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is funny as it's much cheaper to provide higher speeds in high density areas.

How so? Wont more connections to a tower saturate the bandwidth?

Cost of provisioning the backhaul network out to the middle of nowhere maybe?.. and paying people to live next to the tower and top up the onsite diesel generator.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#234

Post by castevictim »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #221
castevictim wrote: post #202

I think the lack of geographical proximity to Jio, didn't give Mr. Ben the complete picture of the forces at play. The story of Jio (Reliance) cannot be told without the political-corruption-nexus in India, by investing in Jio - Facebook, Google, Qualcomm etc. not only acquire stake in 'The Enterprise' of India but also guaranteed of political favors apart from access to data from millions of Indians through a single…

I see that claim being thrown around a lot but it does not have much merit IMO. India is very corrupt but then all companies know that already. There is nothing special that Reliance can offer that Vodafone or Airtel wont. In fact during the Congress government India saw the largest scam ever perpetuated by non-Reliance players. Reliance is also not a winner always. Reliance industries has burned its hands on retail,…

>People assign too much competence of current BJP government.

That is mistaking its competence to get votes, retain power to competence in governance, the latter should have been very clear when it demonetized the currency plunging millions into poverty and economic turmoil from which the India has never recovered from.

We are telling BJP is criminal, racist, and fascist political party(Its parent RSS directly borrowed its ideology from Nazi) which will go to any length to get votes and be in power.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#235

Post by ravirdv »

econcon wrote: post #187
bigpumpkin wrote: post #4

"Today friends, I have great pride in announcing that Jio has designed and developed a complete 5G solution from scratch. This will enable us to launch a world-class 5G service in India using 100% homegrown technology and solution. " Wow, that's amazing. Maybe the US and the UK can also import this 5G tech in our networks? I'm getting tired of ATT's fake 5GE.

Obviously he misled people. His firm can deploy cloud native soft infrastructure and data centers for 5G but not the hardware. And here too they are any special as Rukuten already does it. They still have the license technology from the vendors even if they manufacture it on their own. And why will vendor license it to them, and if they'll have to - they'll do so at the same profit margin which they'd make from direc…

They did acquire Radisys couple of years back, may be something to do with that.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/reliance-acquires-radisys-for-...

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#236

Post by harsh3195 »

castevictim wrote: post #212
harsh3195 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades? I think that's a gloomy thought. But these companies do have lobbies in all political parties. So whose in power won't make much of a difference.

>So whose in power won't make much of a difference. It does, depending upon whether a party has a moral ceiling. Whether there's something which they wouldn't do. Unfortunately, there is no such limit for a party which does not believe in democracy. Why has India dropped in democracy ratings drastically?[0] What's worrying is, now that BJP has taught other parties how India's democracy can be broken, even if by some…

I mean, out of the two parties who can be in power in the near future, one has been involved in the 2G spectrum scam and the other is, well, bjp. The moral ceiling seems super high for both.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#237

Post by castevictim »

blueblisters wrote: post #230
castevictim wrote: post #202

I think the lack of geographical proximity to Jio, didn't give Mr. Ben the complete picture of the forces at play. The story of Jio (Reliance) cannot be told without the political-corruption-nexus in India, by investing in Jio - Facebook, Google, Qualcomm etc. not only acquire stake in 'The Enterprise' of India but also guaranteed of political favors apart from access to data from millions of Indians through a single…

Ben later cited two articles written by people who are arguably closer in geographical proximity to Jio: - https://hind.substack.com/p/reliance-origins/ - https://hind.substack.com/p/from-oil-to-jio The articles say that the Ambani family was very close to the Gandhis too. It's very hard to find a complete picture of how Reliance works - I guess they keep a very tight inner circle. Most accusations of impropriety are…

>but it's hard to argue that influence is greater than other Indian oligarchs (Mittals, Tatas, Birlas etc.)

That's naive at best.

It's no secret that Billionaires have their way anywhere in the world, especially in India where inequality is enforced, armored with the caste system. So, an Entrepreneur belonging to high caste, heading a company (Infosys, TCS etc.) has far less hurdles than a lower caste individual whose even the right to education via the reservation system would be questioned at every step of their life.

That said, Reliance - BJP nexus is nothing like India has seen before, so the political favors received by the Mittals, Tatas, Birlas pale in comparison. Details in other comment replies.

>The investments gave a much needed sigh of relief for the Reliance group of companies and their bondholders.

It was not like Jio was struggling for survival, which loads of other companies and millions of Indians do at this pandemic. Govt.'s answer to them? Get a loan from the Bank(Which none of the Banks are willing to give, even farmer gold loans have been halted in several states).

Where else have we seen global competitors who are fighting neck and neck in different markets invest in a single company which hasn't proven anything else other than undercutting competitors with inferior technology? Only thing which makes Reliance-Jio different from any other companies in India are its political influence and that is why these global players are rushing to invest. That and the wretched data.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#238

Post by coder_seeker »

reactspa wrote: post #151
op03 wrote: post #86

Too much overconfidence in Reliance. This is the same firm well known for totally missing the boat on India's IT boom. It has done a great job deploying the network. Unmatched probably anywhere in the world. But that set of skills has nothing to do with charting out a vision that will work in future. That set of skills to rollout a network at huge scale quickly, existed in India because of cut throat competition in t…

Great points in parent comment. Additionally: the problem of nepotism. The most recent shareholder AGM showed up in my YouTube recos. I didn't watch the video, but in the mouse-over preview there were only 3 people: Mukesh, his mother, and his wife.

I watched the whole Jio AGM 2020 presentation. All the board members were present, through video conferencing ofcourse as were the Ambani family members who are the majority shareholders of Reliance Industries and are directors on the various companies' board of the parent group. What nepotism are you talking about? Is RIL a govt entity where it is illegal to appoint one's relative? As majority shareholders they can appoint whomever they want. Two criteria for appointments that come to mind: Trust and Competencies. For the latter they have hired many global as well as Indian executives to run Jio. For eg. Matthew Oomen who is Rel Jio's president was previously Sprint Nextel's CTO.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#239

Post by naruvimama »

castevictim wrote: post #234
KorematsuFred wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that claim being thrown around a lot but it does not have much merit IMO. India is very corrupt but then all companies know that already. There is nothing special that Reliance can offer that Vodafone or Airtel wont. In fact during the Congress government India saw the largest scam ever perpetuated by non-Reliance players. Reliance is also not a winner always. Reliance industries has burned its hands on retail,…

>People assign too much competence of current BJP government. That is mistaking its competence to get votes, retain power to competence in governance, the latter should have been very clear when it demonetized the currency plunging millions into poverty and economic turmoil from which the India has never recovered from. We are telling BJP is criminal, racist, and fascist political party(Its parent RSS directly borrow…

Fanta, Autobahn & Volkswagen are also products of the Nazis.

One of the reasons Modi/BJP's opponents failed is because of the level of ridiculous accusations they level against them.

An one point even staunch communists and Congress supports lost faith in their politics.

I really do not understand how much people can hate the success of others. Contrast Reliance with the likes of Karunanidhi dynasty or the Gandhi dynasty, not only do these dynasts directly loot public money in the billions. They also have them stashed abroad, often in sensitive projects like Hamabanthota run by enemy states like China.

Re: India, Jio, and the Four Internets

#240

Post by cocoland2 »

rusticpenn wrote: post #216
unmole wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nexus with current ruling party - BJP It's not like things were too different before. Mukesh Ambani supposedly referred to the INC as Apni Dukaan . Both the Congress and BJP are more than happy to appease Motabhai. Source: https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/mukesh-said-haan...

Atleast there was no situation where BSNL was not granted 5G rights, while Jio is granted with this. IT feels like Reliance is govt funded while BSNL is private.

I had my rant about BSNL down below. BSNL by a far distance has to be the worst in terms of Customer service , which is sad because i know of brilliant engineers who joined as Junior Engineers in BSNL clearing PSC. Unless there is accountability , there is no chance BSNL will survive. Note that this is really bad , especially for rural areas where BSNL had the strongest connectivity
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