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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#231

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

You've been arrogant for years and you know what? So have I. I and many, many people in this industry have been doing this for years. What's different from you and many other people is that you admit and face your bias rather than justify it. I'm seriously curious what google interview board members have to say about this study. People like Gayle Laakmaan have been saying things to justify the whole process for years…

I'm not a googler (but I've interviewed there) and I disagree somewhat with the original premise. I think whiteboarding does filter out bad candidates but also filters out good candidates who fail the anxiety test. Google, with their massive pipeline, probably doesn't care about the false negatives enough to change; they still find enough people to hire. It's the companies with smaller pipelines that need to scoop up these good candidates.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#232
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

If not algorithms then what would you use to test a generic programmer? You would have to setup a custom panel based on each candidate. A person who has only worked for PHP would need a different panel from someone who has worked on C++ all his life. Algorithms is language and framework agnostic. It doesn't matter if you work in embedded or data science. It doesn't matter if you code in C or Python. The same question can be used to judge everyone.

Companies that don't do the above usually advertise requirements for X technology with Y years of experience. A smart programmer without knowledge of X can learn it easily, but he won't even be called for an interview.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#233
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

You're missing the quality they're actually testing for: ability to study and dedicate yourself to a task. Or in other words work ethic. The algorithms don't matter but the fact that you can spend months learning them is an important skill. Intelligence is less important for success than work ethic which is why work ethic is tested for so much. Specifically, work ethic and ability to learn in a related domain as, for…

I thought my whole- working in the industry in various senior roles for the last 12 years and shipping tens of successful projects would show that. How naive of me.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#234
As someone with bad anxiety and who gets panic attacks in roughly one third of panels, it does feel fairly discriminatory.

The best interview I had was when they asked me a whiteboarding question, gave me a pencil and paper, and left the room. I solved it, they came back, and we talked about my solution. They still got to hear my thought process.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#235
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

For an average shop that pays average salary and doesn't offer anything interesting, the answer is no. For a company that pays way above average,has some decent perks and stock options,why not?

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#236
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

It seems pretty obvious to me that this is an arbitrary filtration process (no different than any other arbitrary filter) that strokes the ego and appears to be better than a random coin toss, but it really is not.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#237

It's ironic that people who want the job will be nervous and might interview poorly but people that are only interviewing for experience or just don't care will do better.

Definitely my experience. If I don't really care about the job either way I do quite well. If I really want or need the job I generally bomb the interview. So often I've ended up with jobs that I didn't care a lot about.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

I'm actually a little scared to leave my current FAANG gig for that exact reason tbh. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't make it back in the door without more leetcode grinding + repeated loops than I'm willing to do at this point in my career. Plus, stack on top of that, I've seen how the sausage is made. I've done 90+ interviews on the other side. At the end of the day, it comes down to how lucky you got in the loop. I'…

My dream is to have some kind of "working for myself" career like the creators of the Apollo or Overcast apps. Not contracting with companies as clients, just working on one small great project for regular people to use and selling it yourself. It sounds fantastic.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

On the other hand you can get pretty far even if you don't any social network but you can solve textbook problems.

Tip for CS students: Get to know your fellow students and really get to know your professors. Try and leave a good impression.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#240
One observation of mine is that interviewing is often more about finding the most feasible and consistent process rather than the most effective one. Whiteboard interviews make for consistent evaluation and it's easy to train up new people on a set of questions. Scoring based on how far the interview got, and the level of optimization of the approach used is relatively unambiguous. So it's logistically easy and less subject to bias - that's why it's popular even though it has little resemblance to day to day work.

A more effective interview would involve tasks that more closely resemble day to day work. However, the examples of this that I've seen so far make for much more ambiguous evaluation or are much more difficult to schedule:

One example interview process I've seen is having people submit PRs to a codebase to fix bugs or implement features, and then review a PR submitted by the interviewer. This more closely resembles day to day work, but has the disadvantage of spreading the interview process across multiple days. Additionally, you might tell the candidate that they shouldn't take more than 2 hours to implement the PR but who knows if they spend 10+ hours on it.

Another alternative interview format is a 2-hour long one that starts with the interviewer asking "how would you build a text editor?" There's no right response. If the candidate gives responses like ropes and gap buffers then the interview might go in a direction focused on data structures and systems. Some candidates ask if it's a WYSIWYG editor like word, or an ASCII/unicode editor like Vim. In that case the interview might test the candidate's abilities to think through how to build an interface to decouple the UI and underlying data structures. The candidate might start off with a simple array, and work through why it becomes infeasible at larger lengths and think through ways to mitigate that. This interview was flexible to test technical knowledge and reasoning for candidates at any level, and could go in a variety of directions. But on the other hand that makes consistent evaluation difficult and training people up on this interview similarly difficult. This was at a small company with maybe 30-40 engineers, where each team basically had total latitude on how it carried out its own hiring. That's not how a lot of larger companies' interviews work, which often emphasize consistent evaluation and multiple interviewers.

The only interview which does more closely resemble real world tasks, and I suggest that more companies employ is debugging interviews. It requires the candidate bring a laptop and that the company build a couple repository templates, but once that's done it's a very easy interview to conduct. Just observe the candidate debug and make note of how many bugs are fixed and whether the fixes do bad things like breach layers of abstraction.

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