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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#231

Post by modeless »

elandrum wrote: post #10
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

It sure does get them a lot of attention though! My Jeep Cherokee has lane assist, adaptive cruise control, auto-parking, and crash detection (emergency braking) but they don’t get all this press about it.

But it doesn't automatically change lanes to follow routes or pass slow traffic. It doesn't take exits or navigate interchanges. It doesn't stop for stoplights. You can't drive it around a parking lot from your phone with nobody in the driver's seat.

What Autopilot offers is not "Full Self Driving", but don't pretend like the features on your Jeep are equivalent.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#232

Post by cjhopman »

itsoktocry wrote: post #205
drcross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But Musk as a human isn't so great. I would be very hesitant to criticise someone who has arguably done/will do more for the continuation for humanity than anyone else who has ever lived. Maybe it's your definition of "isn't great" that needs re-calibration.

> who has arguably done/will do more for the continuation for humanity than anyone else who has ever lived. Because he's building some electric cars? How low is your bar?

But you don't understand. Car analysts since the early 90s have been saying that electric cars would become profitable and become a serious chunk of the market by 2020 because they all knew that musk was going to come along and show us how great electric cars are and save the world.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#233

Post by haecceity »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #21
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately…

Isn't airplane autopilot only used when there's no traffic around. An analogous autopilot for cars would never be used unless if you're in an empty parking lot.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#234

Post by smnrchrds »

frenchy wrote: post #202
smnrchrds wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, HP, etc should take note and sell their laptops as "have the hardware needed for full AGI capability." Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine."

> Chemistry kits with a sample of every element in the periodic table should advertise them as "have all the materials needed for COVID-19 vaccine. Not that this invalidates your point at all, but doing that literally would actually be extremely expensive and difficult for some of the elements.

It will be worth it. After all, COVID-19 vaccine is priceless. /s

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#235

Post by seppel »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #187
dx87 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise control just maintains speed, not direction. It'll happily plow you into an obstacle without human intervention.

Plowing you into an obstacle is what you get when you maintain your existing course and speed without regard for what's in front of you. "Forward" is a direction. And whether you call it cruise control or not, the definition still matches a thing the car actually does. It has lane keep assist too.

The thing is: Cruise control maintains the speed without human supervision. Lane keep assist does not keep in a lane without human supervision (hence it is only assist).

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#236

Post by Aunche »

lazyjones wrote: post #197
nemothekid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is one part car company, one part battery company, and 5 parts marketing hype. The only reason people are seriously contemplating buying full electric cars today instead of the bullshit BMW produced is because Iron Man convinced enough people that electric cars will simultaneously fly to mars and cure world hunger. The stock reflects this. In other words, there is no Tesla without Elon's meme machine. The grave…

> The only reason people are seriously contemplating buying full electric cars today instead of the bullshit BMW produced is because Iron Man convinced enough people that electric cars will simultaneously fly to mars and cure world hunger. Is this supposed to be ironic or do you actually believe this drivel? Drive a modern EV and try again. Most Tesla owners will never go back to a noisy, smelly, crappy, slow ICE.

Have you driven a modern ICE? I rented a new Honda Accord this weekend. Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way, and it's roughly half the price. This isn't to say Teslas aren't impressive, but I do think they're overhyped.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#237

Post by filoleg »

DasIch wrote: post #189
filoleg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That the German Court felt pressured by the Auto Lobby to take this decision? Probably that + the constituents. When a very large chunk of your constituents are employed by local car manufacturing companies, letting those companies fail and lose to a foreign competitor not only loses money for those companies, it also puts a threat of unemployment on your voting population. Lobbying from local car companies + your…

Judges in Germany generally aren’t elected. The few that are cannot be re-elected and have fairly long terms. The voting population in this case would consist of politicians in the legislative branch.

I am aware they are not elected, I wasn't implying that judges would do it just get re-elected. I meant it to say that the judge could see it not only as some lobbying effort, but also as a move to protect interests of the working people they are serving.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#238

Post by Animats »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #132
stetrain wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think the name "Autopilot" is the least troublesome part of the marketing. Other car makers call their systems CoPilot, ProPilot, SuperCruise, whatever and I think the name matters less than the communication and details of using the system. The main Autopilot marketing page shows a video of a Tesla driving itself, says the Driver is there for legal purposes only, and provides no other disclaimers about th…

> The main Autopilot marketing page shows a video of a Tesla driving itself, says the Driver is there for legal purposes only This alone feels like lawsuit-bait. I'm surprised it took this long for the courts to get involved.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk said this month the electric car manufacturer was close to making its cars capable of automated driving without any need for driver input, so-called Level 5 autonomy.

Yeah, right. Tesla has only Level 2 self-driving. They've never demonstrated Level 3 outside a video of a demo in Palo Alto. They wouldn't even let the press take a ride. Google/Waymo has hundreds of self-driving vehicles running around in test. Go to Mountain View and you'll probably see some. If Tesla had anything that really worked, they'd have enough test vehicles running around that it would be visible to the industry.

Waymo One is offering driverless rides in Phoenix AZ. Interestingly, they are now offering only autonomous rides - the "safety driver" is out, to prevent epidemic spread.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#239

Post by seppel »

JJMcJ wrote: post #207
drcross wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But autopilot is explicitly a term for hands off operation. I see you've never skippered a boat.

No, just the common understanding of autopilot for aircraft. I assume, just like with cars, things can happen quickly with a boat.

> No, just the common understanding of autopilot for aircraft.

The autopilot for a aircraft does whatever it is supposed to do without human supervision. If you turn on keep heading, it will keep the heading (within physical limitations). I guess it is similar for a boat.

Lane assist, however, requires constant human supervision because it is just an assistant. I think this is the important difference that needs to be highlighted here.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#240

Post by Symmetry »

haecceity wrote: post #233
ojnabieoot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" I am not accusing you specifically of using weak language, but let's call a spade a spade: it's not a "goof," it's a dangerous and deceptive business practice. It's one that Elon Musk is directly responsible for and directly encouraged with misleading statements where he deliberately…

Isn't airplane autopilot only used when there's no traffic around. An analogous autopilot for cars would never be used unless if you're in an empty parking lot.

Yes, anybody who has used an autopilot on a boat or airplane will understand that they work exactly the same way the "autopilot" on a Tesla works. But that's not how the general public understand the word and so Tesla shouldn't have used it in advertising copy aimed at the general public.
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