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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#231

Post by RandomBacon »

fermienrico wrote: post #217
RandomBacon wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PC ads Can't customize iOS without jailbreaking it Antennagate

This is a weak set of arguments, no offense. I am a PC ads was almost 13 years ago. Antennagate? Samsung Galaxy Note 7? Apple also messed up their whole keyboard fiasco, but they did replace my macbook pro chassis free of cost outside of warranty. So did Samsung with their battery fiasco. Jailbreaking is done by literally impossible to see slice of the consumer base. Apple is not going to give up their T2 security an…

> Any examples?

I answered your question, I'm sorry they don't meet your standards.

Speaking of anecdotes: Apple didn't fix or replace my iPhone that was under warranty.

And why are you changing the subject to hacking?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#232

Post by simion314 »

pinkfoot wrote: post #212
simion314 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, do you know and what is this relevant? They get complaints and they look at them, apply the laws for the benefit of the citizens and not for companies, like when the mobile phone companies were regulated lot of people complained that this big companies will lose too much money but still I see Vodafone and the rest thriving and us the consumer can move to other companies without any pain.

Of course its relevant: you said the EU intervenes when people complain to stop corporate dominance and abuse. Lots of people complained. The EU did nothing. Truly - Microsoft office is as dominant as it ever was. It the EU has an anti-monopoly/dominance purpose, if MS Word/Excel/Powerpoint isn't its white whale, its hard to imagine what would be. And the GDPR is being similarly defanged.

But are you ignoring other laws from EU or country specific that worked ? If you do not know let me give you some example "web browser" the reason you are not commenting this from IE is because of law makers that stopped Microsoft abuse, the reason Intel is not a monopoly and charge you 2 times more for 10 times less is because lawmakers prevented it.

For GDPR you need to wait before you conclude, it is similar to laws that force companies to label the food and drinks, now the websites are labeled if they contained shit and how many tons of shit contain but some people instead of complaining that there is too much shit in the website they complain that the labels are too big and would prefer a cool shiny logo instead of informative text.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#233

Post by moz14015 »

codemac wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

Apple absolutely has a monopoly on phone apps. You can either get an app on the Apple App Store or the Google Play store in practice. Both charge 30% fees for every dollar spent on digital products, that they did nothing to provide. They have absolute authority on what apps can and cannot be used on phones.

Not sure why everyone has rose colored glasses for Apple's hardware enforced software monopoly.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#234

Post by Proven »

hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

There's a monopoly and oligopoly. How can there be a series of monopolies?

They don't provide essential services, so it is very much possible to not do busines with any of them.

I don't like the way they do business, but let's be honest about the situation.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#235

Post by ghostwriter »

moz14015 wrote: post #233
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

Apple absolutely has a monopoly on phone apps. You can either get an app on the Apple App Store or the Google Play store in practice. Both charge 30% fees for every dollar spent on digital products, that they did nothing to provide. They have absolute authority on what apps can and cannot be used on phones. Not sure why everyone has rose colored glasses for Apple's hardware enforced software monopoly.

Most of the apps on those stores don't have to be OS Apps, they can be Web Apps, accessbile from any device connected to the Internet.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#236

Post by thephyber »

simion314 wrote: post #164
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

We also need to keep in mind that you can't get your toys and leave, your applications and media is locked into the store, you will have to start over, buy everything again, and before someone mentions "What about Xbox or Stream" those are bad too.

Apple iTunes has actually tried to mitigate this by supporting Movies Anywhere[1] for some video content and iTunes Plus[2] has no DRM, so they aren't as bad as some other walled gardens.

The app stores/systems on all of the walled gardens are problematic, but the way I see it it's largely because they don't want to create a web of trust including all of the other app stores (the weakest one's security would cause a loss of profit for all).

> What about X or Y

This behavior is largely a feature of the market and a failure of governments to choose to do anything about it. We are ~12 years into the iOS app ecosystem, and much further (~30 years) when it comes to packaged disk software/games which were sold separately for Apple/Windows/game consoles.

I'm more worried about the trajectory -- governments don't seem to identify this as a problem (except for a few select legislators) and other industries seem to be moving in this direction (John Deere DRM, Tesla apps, AWS Marketplace, etc).

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202915

[2] https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/itunes-plus-itns1ec4e...

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#237

Post by heavyset_go »

hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

> I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

Even if you could simply stop using X, "voting with your wallet" is often a fallacy, especially when voting with your voice and actual vote have consistently enacted meaningful change throughout history.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#238

Post by thephyber »

root_axis wrote: post #131
itsamoreh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but you're still indirectly supporting them.

How?

In any free/freemium product/service, your attention is your primary currency (your wallet and your participation in the network effect are secondary). Marketing to HN viewers happens when a funded company announces hiring.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#239

Post by ghostwriter »

smnrchrds wrote: post #189
Invictus0 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't buy the device. Bad taste in your mouth is not going to accomplish anything.

I don't have an Apple device. I put my money where my mouth is. But I am sure that some of the services I am buying are more expensive because of the Apple tax and I am paying Apple tax anyway. Bad taste in my mouth is not going to accomplish anything. Simply not buying an Apple device does not accomplish anything either. Speaking out, raising awareness, asking for regulations, etc. is the only way to accomplish anyt…

> But I am sure that some of the services I am buying are more expensive because of the Apple tax and I am paying Apple tax anyway.

Imagine how much more you could save if companies wouldn't have to include corporate tax burden into prices of their products. And what if you were exempt from income tax too? Just a food for thought.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#240

Post by thephyber »

enriquto wrote: post #151
FakeRemore wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether?

> Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether? I do not have a smartphone and my life is alright, but I was not suggesting that. You can certainly have a smartphone that is not controlled by neither Google nor Apple. For example, by installing an OS like LineageOS, or even some "freer" stuff that is out there.

In a tech crowd like HN, I don't think that's a reasonable solution for most people.

App ecosystems have network effects. Do your {bank, 2FA vendor, paycheck vendor, retirement vendor, etc} all support apps for LineageOS?

Additionally, the number of tech jobs which support those smartphones, their apps, testing websites on smartphone browsers, and the related marketing all require many of us to participate in the core smartphone markets, even if we choose not to use them outside of work.

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