GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master” • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#231

Post by ekns » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

One of the other submissions relating to this became flagged for some reason: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23526311

I don't often comment on things, but this seems like a slippery slope and a process that I'd like to counteract in some way, so input/comments are welcome. Original comment copied below:

I'd prefer it if things didn't change, including the master/slave terminology (the 'master' branch doesn't even have a 'slave' in git...)

Have the words themselves become bad to use? It seems that this is a USA centric view anyway with its history (and even then it seems ridiculous--why can't these things be compartmentalised as technical terms?)

Slavery certainly still exists in the world, and has existed in most places at some point. Should we rename 'slavery' to something else too while we're at it? Or forget it exists and existed?

Certainly certain terms become antiquated over time, like the vocabulary used in Emacs (yank/buffer/etc vs cut/window/tab/...), but master/slave doesn't seem to be there yet.

I wonder if there's some way to counteract this newspeak stuff? I think it's harmful that these things happen for such frivolous reasons. Does one just have to be as loud as the minority that drives these things, to counteract it?

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#232

Post by humanrebar » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

coldsnap427 wrote: post #182

Traster wrote: post #10

Using the term master doesn't bother me - in my opinion the idea of the master/slave dynamic is much less problematic when you're talking in the context of bits and bytes flicking up and down on some silicon. Having said that, if it bothers people, change it. I do suspect to a certain extent though that people are more interested in changing it because they're worried it might be offensive to other people than actual…

> This is what I'm talking about, is there anyone who is actually feeling isolated and uncomfortable, or are there just a load of white people who have focused on literally the most unimportant aspect of being a black person in the tech community? I'm a POC in the tech community and couldn't care less about "master" being problematic. The tweets you quoted likely came from a white person who thinks a little to highly…

> ...people who are more qualified to lead and actually care about the public.

They're still politicians, right?

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#233

Post by humanrebar » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

xellisx wrote: post #208

floatingatoll wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small symbolic thing is still worth doing, even if it doesn't directly improve the lives of people.

And if you look at that it analogy of a tree, what is a "Master branch". Also what is a "Main branch". It's trunk. Of course then it would be called "The trunk branch", which sounds silly too me, and trunk has a couple sexual slangs tied to it. I read on person naming theirs 'prd', 'uat', and 'dev'. Less typing and describes what the branch is for.

While we're being pedantic, it's a graph, not a tree.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#234

Post by humanrebar » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

mercury_craze wrote: post #230

If it helps normalise the removal of problematic terminology in tech then this feels like a positive thing. Software development has a troubling history of being an overwhelmingly straight, white, male space, ridding ourselves of terminology that causes friction to new developers who don't fit the standard model has got to be a good thing. I'm certain that most people would see renaming master to main as fairly benig…

> Software development has a troubling history of being an overwhelmingly straight, white, male space...

Software engineering is incredibly diverse. There are many East Asians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, and people from underprivileged backgrounds from former Soviet block countries. It also has a relatively high percentage of just unique folks.

Software engineering also has a diversity problem with respect to female, Latino, and black engineers in particular.

I'm just pointing out that "overwhelmingly white" is quite inaccurate.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#235

Post by mercury_craze » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #234

mercury_craze wrote: post #230

If it helps normalise the removal of problematic terminology in tech then this feels like a positive thing. Software development has a troubling history of being an overwhelmingly straight, white, male space, ridding ourselves of terminology that causes friction to new developers who don't fit the standard model has got to be a good thing. I'm certain that most people would see renaming master to main as fairly benig…

> Software development has a troubling history of being an overwhelmingly straight, white, male space... Software engineering is incredibly diverse. There are many East Asians, South Asians, Middle Easterners, and people from underprivileged backgrounds from former Soviet block countries. It also has a relatively high percentage of just unique folks. Software engineering also has a diversity problem with respect to f…

Fair point, overwhelmingly white was poorly chosen - should have left it as problem with diversity.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#236

Post by akb960 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

Just wondering.

Unless git changes its default branch name to something else, isn't Github's approach futile?

When you "git init", git creates the master branch locally.

And then when you push, I sincerely hope GitHub wouldn't somehow rename that branch to something else...

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#237

Post by reportgunner » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

mskec wrote: post #225

umvi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like an ultimately meaningless gesture. Is erasing the word "master" from the English language going to actually help anyone? What's next - is the lock company Master Lock going to have to change their company name?

What about a small company called Mastercard?

Ownercard coming soon

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#238

Post by catacombs » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

cczizou wrote: post #213

coldsnap427 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's just white people trying to feel good about themselves. I know many POCs and black people who have bigger concerns -- not getting killed by police, equal pay, etc. -- than the name of a damn git branch.

This, I agree with. However, I still see a value in relinquishing problematic language early and often.

"master" isn't problematic, though.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#239

Post by catacombs » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #232

coldsnap427 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what I'm talking about, is there anyone who is actually feeling isolated and uncomfortable, or are there just a load of white people who have focused on literally the most unimportant aspect of being a black person in the tech community? I'm a POC in the tech community and couldn't care less about "master" being problematic. The tweets you quoted likely came from a white person who thinks a little to highly…

> ...people who are more qualified to lead and actually care about the public. They're still politicians, right?

Anyone running for office is a politician. How they use their power is what sets them apart.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#240

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #216

takinola wrote: post #123

As a black person, speaking just for myself, I really do not get the issue around semantics like this. The word "Master" is not synonymous with any race and so does not make me (or anyone I know) uncomfortable. The concept of masters (and slaves) exist and are useful metaphors for naming similar phenomenon. I would much rather focus on issues that make people truly less comfortable in technology, like hiring or spons…

It just seems like an ultimately meaningless gesture. Is erasing the word "master" from the English language going to actually help anyone? What's next - is the lock company Master Lock going to have to change their company name?

[deleted]