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After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

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Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my observations of the American public, people generally seem to be fine with the extreme sentences and punishment that the system doles out. We’re completely apathetic towards most criminals (usually unless they happen to be rich & white), without understanding the circumstances that created their situation. Take the Crystal Mason case. She’s a Texas woman of color who voted illegally in the 2016 election and got…

What's the idea behind convicted felons not being allowed to vote?

>What's the idea behind convicted felons not being allowed to vote?

Disenfranchisement, and the 13th amendment. The "justice" system in the United States, especially enabled by laws surrounding drug prohibition (created for the purpose of suppressing Nixon's political opposition, hence why cannabis is schedule 1 federally), is the modern embodiment of the Jim Crow system that was supposedly abolished.

Prisoners are specifically exempted from the slavery protections provided by the 13th amendment. Allowing prisoners, who are being housed at the expense of the tax payer, to be forced to work for pennies as literal slaves, often for private corporations.

Despite marijuana use being equally prevalent among white and black populations, blacks are several times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession. Despite cocaine and crack being literally the same drug, the only difference being if it's in its hcl salt or freebase form, crack is prosecuted by a weight ratio of 18:1 compared to cocaine. Before the "fair sentencing act" was passed in 2010, this ratio was 100:1. Low level crack dealers caught with 10g were prosecuted the same as somebody caught with a kilo of coke, triggering mandatory minimums of decades for drug trafficking.

Can you guess why this prosecutional disparity existed (and still exists) between two different forms of the same drug?

Hint: it's the same reason why felons are politically disenfranchised.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does jive with our sense of justice, yes, but I think the point is what are we achieving. Is it actually disincentivizing the crime? Is it preventing recurrence of the same individual committing future crime? I would argue that US prison statistics point at a massive failure in one, both, or is simply incarcerating people unnecessarily in the first place. This article is touching on the second one specifically.

We don't know what will happen in the future. Prison time at least ensures this won't happen for multiple years, and gives you a chance to think it over. If medical systems he hacked could have hurt people then this is basically conscious intention to hurt others, and it doesn't matter that he didn't. So in this particular case its really hard to stand on his side. If we were talking about some credit card scam - tha…

I think you're missing the point of the conversation. I'm not excusing or justifying what he did at all. The point of this is, other than our sense of justice and desire to punish someone for doing something bad, what is prison supposed to achieve?

I'd like prison to achieve the kind of justice that yes, does provide some sense of justice to victims, but aims to reform criminals and reduce crime. Now, independent of this case, America is clearly failing, because our recidivism rate is (depending on the study you look at) between 40% and 70% over a matter of months and years, which is pretty terrible [1]. Many other first-world countries are achieving far better rates. And for per-capita imprisonment, America is literally the worst in the world according to Wikipedia [2]. Last I checked, a couple of years ago, it was second.

But back to this specific article. Yes, this person was convicted of a serious crime and went to jail. But while there they were isolated in a way I consider a violation of the 8th amendment without due process. Not only do I consider this a failing of "justice" in its own right, but it's left this person less able to go and rejoin society in a productive way. Poverty is one of the strongest predictors of criminality: how is this helpful to anyone? Just because you want to punish it and doing so seems fair, doesn't mean the way the US justice system will implement that punishment is doing something good in the end. You can reform that system without just excusing serious crimes.

[1] https://atlascorps.org/recidivism-united-states-overview/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

edit: I feel like this is the same kind of misunderstanding everyone's having with the #BlackLivesMatter vs #BackTheBlue stuff right now. People complain about the way some police are doing their jobs, and point out ways some other police departments or police in other countries do it much better, and the alternative we consider is no police. What the actual fuck? Can't we just have police tone down the tactics and approach the problem a different way? Since when is saying that police are killing people too easily and too often saying that they just shouldn't have even arrested the person?

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#233

Not being able to talk to a lawyer is insanity. How is that legal?

We're on a slippery slope to being disappeared whenever it's convenient for the US government, by the loss of habeas corpus. I first noticed it being undermined in the 2000s under the George W. Bush administration:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/12/04/killing-habeas...

Right now habeas corpus is mainly being suspended for non-US citizens, but more authoritarian-leaning elected officials keep trying to undermine it domestically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_St...

Unfortunately we're vulnerable right now because the public is easily distracted by straw man arguments. For example, they might feel that it's ok to deny an antifa demonstrator habeas corpus (since antifa was deemed a terrorist organization by Donald Trump), without realizing that in order for habeas corpus to work, it must apply to everyone regardless of criminal accusation.

I'm seeing this fallacy constantly right now, so if there is a better word for it, please comment because it would be good to have a name for it.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#234
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Brock Turner got six months for rape. Here's a selection of decade+ prison sentences for marijuana: https://www.boulderdefenseattorney.com/top-10-non-violent-ma...

The Brock Turner case, while horrendous, is not representative of how rapes are prosecuted or sentenced. Skimming through your link, I don’t see anything involving someone with a single joint being incarcerated for anywhere near a rape charge. Some of those sentences may be out of line on their own, but you also don’t have people being put away for 20 years for being caught smoking a joint.

Only 33% of the cases even result in an arrest [1] and 6 in 1000 cases actually result in jail time. That only 384/1000 are even reported to police shows what people think their options are in getting justice. (US is not an exception by any means.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States#Pros...

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#235
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he try to hire a hitman to murder some associate of his?

He wasn't charged with that, although all reports indicate he did do it. All sorts of conspiracy theories as to why he wasn't charged, most likely boils down to LE or prosecutorial incompetence.

> He wasn't charged with that

It was, in fact, pay of the allegations of the crimes he was charged with, and it explicitly was a sentencing factor. He wasn't charged with, say, attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder for the alleged murder-for-hire scheme, though.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#236
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Brock Turner case, while horrendous, is not representative of how rapes are prosecuted or sentenced. Skimming through your link, I don’t see anything involving someone with a single joint being incarcerated for anywhere near a rape charge. Some of those sentences may be out of line on their own, but you also don’t have people being put away for 20 years for being caught smoking a joint.

> The Brock Turner case, while horrendous, is not representative of how rapes are prosecuted or sentenced. Do you have evidence that it is not commonly how rape cases against affluent white men are prosecuted or sentenced?

Well, sure, it's an outlier in such cases because it was prosecuted at all. But that's probably the opposite direction that the claim upthread meant to imply.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#237
post #144

I recently had someone in a restroom ask me how to flush the toilet. The toilets had IR sensors and flushed automatically. This person had been in prison for many years and had never seen that before. I think part of the social reform that people are protesting for recently needs to extend to people in prison. Our system does nothing to rehabilitate people or to prepare them to re-enter society. We need to treat pris…

So what is it that determines whether you end up on the black hat route? Is it an inherent flaw within or external circumstances?

A very long time ago I was working as a network administrator for university dorms. We had a kid get caught multiple times for network violations, and each time part of the punishment was having network access disabled for some amount of time.

What struck me the most was that he was more concerned about losing network access than any impact on his university standing. He was a courier for some warez group and was really angry and distraught that he'd not be able to keep up with his responsibilities there.

The point being, I think that people who need social interaction or a sense of belonging, and get it from the 'wrong' place, are liable to do 'wrong' stuff to stay in the group.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#238
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't charged with that, although all reports indicate he did do it. All sorts of conspiracy theories as to why he wasn't charged, most likely boils down to LE or prosecutorial incompetence.

> He wasn't charged with that It was, in fact, pay of the allegations of the crimes he was charged with, and it explicitly was a sentencing factor. He wasn't charged with, say, attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder for the alleged murder-for-hire scheme, though.

Right, he wasn't charged with it. As I said.

It was used as an aggravation factor (if that's the right word) at sentencing, that's true. But he wasn't charged with it.

Re: After 10 years in tech isolation, I’m now outsider to things I once had mastered

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the rest of the world considers prison sentences in the US to be absurdly long. This guy apparently got 10 years for hacking; in much of Europe, you'd get less than that for murder.

Couple of guys in Israel just got 6 months of probation for running the world's largest Botnet for Hire.

And they'll probably get some juicy government contracts for their trouble. Six months is just long enough to show them who's in charge here (the Israeli government), but not long enough for their skills to atrophy so much that they are useless.
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