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Do I need to go to university?

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Re: Do I need to go to university?

#231

Post by Miraste »

screye wrote: post #226
toomanybeersies wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in India (and I'd imagine most other developing countries), getting a degree is one of the most surefire methods of ensuring that you live a good life. It's much less the case in Western countries, especially here in Australia, where tradespeople tend to earn on-par or more than white collar professionals.

Well, University in India also costs like $10k for the whole thing. Soo... the value proposition is quite different. This applies only in the case of the US, because university implies a $100k student loan.

University may cost 10% of US prices, but median income is even lower than 10% US.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#232

Post by da39a3ee »

This Thiel-influenced not-going-to-university thing has got quite tedious. It's as if people think the only thing worth learning is coding and entrepreneurship.

If all you want to learn is programming and to a lesser extent computer science then I guess you don't really need to. However if you want to learn science, medicine, law, mathematics or any other real subject then of course you should. Plus if you want to have fun meeting new friends, getting wasted, and meeting sexual/romantic partners.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#233

Post by selimthegrim »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #208
sdan wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right in many scenarios, but in the VC/startup world it def. seems to matter. I've been relentlessly reading people's stories and have been looking into how to get internships at various VC/tech companies and it always comes down to: which college you're going to. Nuro for example had this open house that exclusively invited Harvard/MIT students (i snuck in) and I'm sure there's a lot of similar opport…

You may or may not realize to whom you are replying. Walter may not be overly impressed by names like Nuro. Walter might think that working for some boring non-VC-dependant company like, say, Boeing, is a perfectly reasonable career path. You seem to be very impressed by the likes of Nuro. I would be over the moon to be able to work with Walter at any company. I'd love to just take a class from him at any school of a…

I know where he went to college and I assure you, Walter's school would not give the VCs problems on that score.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#234

Post by tersers »

I had a conversation with my dad about the purpose of university when I wasn't really learning anything I couldn't learn myself, and I was saddled with courses I have long since forgotten. He told me that yes, times have changed and you can learn a lot more online now than you ever could in school. But he also said that a university degree proves you can commit to something for an extended period of time, and endure its highs and lows. He told me it builds character and helps teach you how to socialize with people.

Nowadays in a hiring position, I don't care too much about the degree, but I do look more for commitment to something. The interview is an indicator of socialization as well and the deciding factor of wanting to work with someone.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#236

Post by Ellipsis753 »

I'm in the UK. 24 years old. Programmer. Did A-levels but not Uni.

It's never been very hard to find jobs, and my pay is above average for the UK (it's £60k).

Programming is pretty easy to teach yourself and it's a super employable field right now. Programmers are in so high a demand no one seems to mind if you don't have any qualifications.

Would things have been better if I'd gone to university instead? Who knows? But it's super possible to be a programmer without going.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#237

Post by selimthegrim »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #168
heresie-dabord wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in Denmark where I get paid monthly for going to university You are, of course, doubly fortunate. > the freedom to pursue intellectual curiosity is a thing which universities offer almost unconditional unlike jobs The hypothetical awakening of a person's intelligence is a battle against much more dominant social conditioning. And then students self-select for narrowness of perspective in a programme. As you…

To go to STEM a person shouldn't be very social to begin with, so social conditioning traditionally doesn't register with them as a problem.

What exactly do you think a department chair does at an R1 university all day, hang out on Slack?

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#238

Post by NikolaNovak »

da39a3ee wrote: post #232

This Thiel-influenced not-going-to-university thing has got quite tedious. It's as if people think the only thing worth learning is coding and entrepreneurship. If all you want to learn is programming and to a lesser extent computer science then I guess you don't really need to. However if you want to learn science, medicine, law, mathematics or any other real subject then of course you should. Plus if you want to ha…

It's that last sentence that covinces me that university is obsolete or at best misrepresented as an educational experience. Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted?

And jf I appear to be cherrypicking the second half of your post, it's because thr first half is cherry picking itself - I'll venture that fields where you Do need university stamp of approval such as medicine and law are becoming rarer and fewer compared to fields and professions where there are valid or better alternatives.

This is not to say education isn't needed and awesome, or even that structured, guided, formal education isn't needed and awesome. But north American universities (and I'm an alumni of a good one) have lost their way and are far from the most efficient or effective method these days.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#239

Post by barry-cotter »

dpau wrote: post #219
dekhn wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got in an argument with a philosophy professor. He put a stick in water and said 'look... the stick is broken'. I said "no, the stick is not broken. it appears broken because the index of refraction is different in water than air, which causes light to bed". he didn't like that very much. It's still not clear to me what point he was trying to make (that human senses are limited?)

you were of course correct, but your professor was simply illustrating a point- of whether we can trust our senses, of how we truly "know" something. philosophy often brings up "commonsensical" questions such as these. he probably didn't reply to you because he was bored from hearing the same smart alecky response every year :)

If he couldn’t illustrate his point without using an optical illusion explained by high school physics maybe he should be doing something else.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#240

Post by avmich »

> Instead of asking “Is university good?”, ask “Do I have something more compelling to do?”

Unfortunately, the problem is harder. How to weight the possibility to reach the state of the art, and participate in moving that state of the art, against rather tangible possibilities or short- or middle-term gains in practical projects? The first option may lead to better long-term wins overall.

It's a hard choice for teenagers, who aren't always able to even formulate the problem.

I'd err on the side of getting education in all cases, while avoiding making somebody particularly rich in the process, as that's an indication of flaws in what I'm getting.

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