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Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

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Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#231

Post by dralley »

kyllo wrote: post #128
madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

I was floored by this comment yesterday from one of their Developer Relations people: > Did any of you actually read the article? We are passing the Jepsen test suite and it was back in 2017 already. So, no, MongoDB is not losing anything if you know what you are doing. https://twitter.com/MBeugnet/status/1253622755049734150?s=20 Can you imagine saying the phrase "if you know what you are doing," in public, to your u…

That comment wasn't yesterday, it was a month ago. It was actually after that comment that Jepsen decided to retest MongoDB and write this new article

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#232

Post by kyllo »

dralley wrote: post #231
kyllo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was floored by this comment yesterday from one of their Developer Relations people: > Did any of you actually read the article? We are passing the Jepsen test suite and it was back in 2017 already. So, no, MongoDB is not losing anything if you know what you are doing. https://twitter.com/MBeugnet/status/1253622755049734150?s=20 Can you imagine saying the phrase "if you know what you are doing," in public, to your u…

That comment wasn't yesterday, it was a month ago. It was actually after that comment that Jepsen decided to retest MongoDB and write this new article

Ah, good to know. I saw it when someone I follow retweeted it yesterday.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#233

Post by [deleted] »

kyllo wrote: post #207
jen20 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly let me point out that this response is neither intended as a defence of MongoDB defaults which are atrocious, or of the company, who are arguably duplicitous. However I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”.

Perhaps, but the point is, if you're working in DevRel and you think your role is to defend the product from criticism, and you do it by placing the onus on the developer to figure out how to use your product safely, you've totally lost the plot.

[deleted]

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#234

Post by penagwin »

square_usual wrote: post #228
kipply wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related their sales strategy is questionable. As an intern at Shopify, I got an email from MongoDB asking us to switch. Shopify was 10 years old the time. Plus several coworkers would also receive similar emails two years later (and some in between of course). I have a shirt from MemSQL that says "Friends don't let friends NoSQL" and I wear it proudly.

If their sales team is sending emails to interns, their strategy is very questionable indeed.

I don't know any details here, but it might have been just one of those "hey we'd love to show you how can help you save - contact us for a demo " kinda things which wouldn't be too weird.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#235

Post by [deleted] »

icedchai wrote: post #182
madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

Isn't it amazing MongoDB is a 12 billion dollar company? Someone is using it and actually paying for it, even though it's not any of the developers you or I know.

[deleted]

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#236

Post by penagwin »

dijit wrote: post #148
Diederich wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mission critical apps Thanks for the clarification. As an example: would you consider the backend software stack that manages physical access to the campus 'mission critical'?

Ubiquity Edgerouters' management interface has a MongoDB backend and I have one on my desk at work, but I would not consider that I run "MongoDB" to provide services for my customers. In much the same way I wouldn't say that my site is powered by Microsoft Excel; but you can be sure Microsoft Excel is used in my company.

I think they mean for first party backend tools. For example at my job I would say we use react in production - not on the frontend, but only for an internal warehouse application interface, nobody outside can use it but it's vital to our business, and we're the ones who built the application.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#237

Post by tluyben2 »

jagannathtech wrote: post #210
VonGuard wrote: post #195

Lying about your test results from Jepsen is like going onto a reality show with Chef Ramsey, being thrown off for incompetence, then putting his name on your restautant's ads "Chef Ramsey ate here!" I'd pay to watch Kyle screaming at people in the MongoDB offices, not that he screams or anything. Just a spectacular mental image: "IT'S NOT ATOMIC! IT COULDN'T SERIALIZE A DOG'S DINNER!"

I would watch a tech version of Ramsey's show.. oh boy!

Yep, always thought shame there isn’t one but too small of a niche I guess. Also, almost everyone telling online that they apply best practices at their company is maybe lying and wishful thinking; that would come out so no-one would apply for the show. So maybe more of a startup show where ‘a Ramsey’ comes in when a (bootstrapped or angel invested; VC funded is not saveable that way imho) company is in distress for tech reasons put in by the founders. Relevant pet peeve for this thread; let us (tiny, cash strapped startup company with founders who know just not enough about prod envs to do a lot of damage) do everything autoscale in the cloud and now we have a burnrate of $28k/mo on AWS bills with 5 users.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#238

Post by tornato7 »

madhadron wrote: post #221
Diederich wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years Are you sure?

Until very recently I worked there, and at once point I dug quite deeply into the company to see if I could find if it was still in use. I couldn't find documents referencing its present existence, packages to install it, or anything else, so I'm pretty certain that it's not in use.

Ah yes, but am engineer at Facebook installed it on his work laptop once

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#239

Post by kipply »

penagwin wrote: post #234
square_usual wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their sales team is sending emails to interns, their strategy is very questionable indeed.

I don't know any details here, but it might have been just one of those "hey we'd love to show you how can help you save - contact us for a demo " kinda things which wouldn't be too weird.

There was a custom blurb about Shopify and talk about "adoption" and alignment with my team, along with a followup email when I didn't respond. Weirder part was that my email wasn't public (but guessable, first.last@shopify) so they must've gone through some manual process to find people to contact

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#240

Post by AmericanChopper »

tehlike wrote: post #151
PacifyFish wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you manage dev vs prod instances with sequelize? Specifically, do you use migrations for your local dB or just force sync it?

they use sequelize migrations for now, eventually we may want to go to something more advanced. take a backup, apply migrations has worked so far. force sync extremely harmful, sequelize is terrible for not being able to incrementally do schema changes. I don't think it can actually add a column, for example. For us, as a result, it means anytime we add a new model or change a table, we write the table definition in…

Sequelize documentation is pretty bad for some of this stuff, but it has the functionality you listed. You can give Postgres a default uuid by setting the column options to ‘new Sequelize.UUIDV4()’, and queryInterface supports add, remove and change column.

The biggest annoyance I had with migrations was anything that needed a model to be defined inside the migration. I eventually gave up on that and just wrote my own scripts to work around it. But perhaps I just wasn’t persistent enough...

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