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No One Goes There Anymore

noonegoesthereanymore.blogspot.com

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Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#231

Post by cactus2093 »

ido wrote: post #184
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at an international company where we frequently had employees from other countries visit the US for a while. Some even chose to relocate to the US. These were almost all technical people, raised on the Internet, social media, and discussions in comment sections. It was fascinating to see how bad they expected America to be according to Internet comments and news articles. Many of them were shocked to realize…

I don't buy it, due to first-hand & second-hand experiences of friends and relatives I have in the US. Let me give you one example: my friend(and at the time business partner)'s wife got cancer in the US. It was fairly "mundane"/common cancer that got treated and everything was alright at the end. He was working as a software developer (normal employee, not self-employed - our venture was a side project) with the afo…

To add my own anecdote about US healthcare, I needed a hernia repair surgery in my early 20’s.

My dr referred me to a specialist, I asked if he was in network for my insurance and everything seemed good. But in what I have since come to realize is a quintessential US healthcare experience, it turns out the facility that this independent surgeon used and the anesthesiologist were not in network. Nobody bothered to tell me about this before the surgery, so I went through with it.

Later I see the bill is about $39k, and my insurance has decided they’ll pay $1174. I was freaking out, but I got a call from the billing department and they asked if I could just pay $200, which I did and they called it a day and everything was settled.

It makes just as little sense as any of the horror stories I’ve heard, but somehow worked out pretty reasonably for me. I still have no idea how this happened. Did I get incredibly lucky? Or are more of these horror stories you hear where someone “ended up with a $50k medical bill”, just on paper and those amounts rarely actually need to be paid?

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#232

Post by lester_jango »

metalliqaz wrote: post #194
ido wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it, due to first-hand & second-hand experiences of friends and relatives I have in the US. Let me give you one example: my friend(and at the time business partner)'s wife got cancer in the US. It was fairly "mundane"/common cancer that got treated and everything was alright at the end. He was working as a software developer (normal employee, not self-employed - our venture was a side project) with the afo…

Yep. That's because in Germany, "healthcare" is about caring for your health. In the US "healthcare" is about keeping laborers productive. Anyone who can generate value for capital will get the care they need to remain productive. When the cost of that care exceeds the value they generate, they are not covered. Public assistance programs are really just the bare minimum that is necessary to keep the following QOL iss…

While I don't wish for this level of utilitarianism and inequality, I do wish our system here in the US had this level of organized clarity that you are describing. I think instead much more of the problem needs to be attributed to sheer incompetence and bureaucratic inefficiency.

Recently I went to the local medical center and had got some basic checkups and diagnostics. The healthcare was fine, but the billing and medical record interactions were terrible. The negotiation about the amount I owed, which was always in the $50-150 range, was dragged out over six months and involved five different corporations (the medical center, their independent billing agency, the collections agency, my insurer, and my insurer's third party negotiation firm). It went to collections even though all parties had agreed it should be on hold pending the "investigation", which never seemed to bring any new details to light. Then finally they lowered it significantly at the end and never provided a reason why it was different.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#233

Post by john-radio »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #44
code_duck wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone else with serious medical problems which have been paid for by public health systems, the financial difficulties of which are compounded by losing your ability to pay once ill, thanks! I would note though, for the purposes of fairness, it's a small percentage of your taxes that go to paying for such programs versus things like the military and interest on debt.

US government healthcare spend is huge, it is not tiny compared to military. $1.1T according to this source in fiscal year 2018: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-much-does-... This website states in 2018, the federal government spent $582B on Medicare, and $389B on Medicaid, plus all the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance and ACA subsidies to individual buyers, etc. https://www.the…

You're assuming they're talking about America, but you're probably not talking to Americans, because:

> if something were to happen to me or my fellow citizen, at least there wouldn't be millions of dollars in hospital bills to pay back and there would be aid for a home to avoid ending up on the streets

Not trying to be an asshole, but that's not a description of the American system.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#234

Post by nojvek »

magicalhippo wrote: post #30

When I see about half my paycheck going to taxes it feels a bit rough. But then I think of stories like this, and how easily it could have been me with an illness requiring expensive medical treatment and possibly preventing me from working regular jobs. And so I pay my tax with pleasure, knowing that if something were to happen to me or my fellow citizen, at least there wouldn't be millions of dollars in hospital bi…

Should have specified what country. In US, that pay check is more likely going to help the military complex build more weapons than hospitals provide for the needy.

In US, poor people are seen as worker bees who just get enough to live and have an illusion of freedom.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#235

Post by mthoms »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #198
mthoms wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There -are- people that truly have issues that lead them to a homeless condition, but this person is not one of them Interesting that you determined all that from reading a single blog post and have no ideal what her diagnosis is. Very classy.

Constantly eating out would cost me as much or maybe more than my rent. So I can relate to the feeling of this coming off as a rant of a crazy person with self-image issues.

Try to imagine the calibre of restaurant that would even serve homeless people. We're talking about the very, very low end.

So, in no way is it comparable to your hypothetical of eating out all the time costing as much as your rent.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#236

Post by lr4444lr »

jerome-jh wrote: post #161
magicalhippo wrote: post #30

When I see about half my paycheck going to taxes it feels a bit rough. But then I think of stories like this, and how easily it could have been me with an illness requiring expensive medical treatment and possibly preventing me from working regular jobs. And so I pay my tax with pleasure, knowing that if something were to happen to me or my fellow citizen, at least there wouldn't be millions of dollars in hospital bi…

From this side of the Altantic, it looks like the US economy is organized so that the lower working class only earns just enough to live. No wonder they are homeless when illness, disability or bad luck strikes. I am not implying this applies to OP.

Look at their consumption habits as compared to your country too, though.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#237

Post by kenforthewin »

lr4444lr wrote: post #236
jerome-jh wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this side of the Altantic, it looks like the US economy is organized so that the lower working class only earns just enough to live. No wonder they are homeless when illness, disability or bad luck strikes. I am not implying this applies to OP.

Look at their consumption habits as compared to your country too, though.

This seems disingenuous. Are you implying that the consumption habits of America's poor are a leading cause of their poverty? To me this smells of victim-blaming, especially given that their consumption habits tend to be a result of their poverty, not a cause.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#238

Post by hestipod »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #178
jerome-jh wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this side of the Altantic, it looks like the US economy is organized so that the lower working class only earns just enough to live. No wonder they are homeless when illness, disability or bad luck strikes. I am not implying this applies to OP.

I worked at an international company where we frequently had employees from other countries visit the US for a while. Some even chose to relocate to the US. These were almost all technical people, raised on the Internet, social media, and discussions in comment sections. It was fascinating to see how bad they expected America to be according to Internet comments and news articles. Many of them were shocked to realize…

The only place I have ever gotten quality care and felt it wasn't broken and about profits was a European social system. I've never been able to permanently move back there and it's going to result in my death. It infuriates me when nationalism and propaganda overtake reality and costs people their lives. I recently attempted suicide after 15+ years of severe chronic pain and the resultant disability that was caused by medical mistakes and unneeded surgery in the USA. That system stole my life. I was then denied social assistance. I was then told by a dozen lawyers "You have a legit malpractice case but the costs are too high, award caps are too low, and we cannot afford to take it and it's not like people believe from pop culture". I was then dependent on the same system that harmed me to "help" me survive that harm, but couldn't afford it nor get adequate care. When so much goes wrong, against what people believe SHOULD happen, they nearly always blame YOU to preserve their world view. I struggled for so long piecing things together and reducing my life and trying to find a way out but I could never get off of Maslow's bottom rungs in this country. Family and people turned away because victim blaming is common and my family are not generally caring and decent people. I live with an emotionally, and now physically abusive parent, as a middle aged man. Isolated. No access to things I need without begging and fighting. It's better than being homeless, but even that is held over my head if I don't "act right".

The expected results of such a life like depression, anxiety etc are then retconned and blamed as the root cause and people treat you badly. I now have more, and more serious medical issues as a result of being "saved" against my documented wishes and the people and systems are treating me even worse now, with some even saying it's my own fault because of the attempt. I have doctors giving me opposite opinions on things and escalating the issue to more and more difficult to access and expensive specialties. I have no reliable transportation and live rurally. I have ever factor that caused me to try and kill myself to stop the suffering and now new and worse ones, yet there is still no "help". The system and society in this country are broken...selfish...greedy. I spent a night in the ER recently as things were so bad, and that's what my useless primary care doctor inssited I do, and while kind and professional, they were limited in what they could do beyond that night, and sent me right back out into that broken system and "home" to the broken rural hellhole with the cruel narcissists threatening me at the worst time. Can't get the help needed to live...not allowed to die...Now I am living my worst fear...that things are so bad I cannot even make a leap of faith or run away to start again even WITH help...I want it all to be over but even that is prevented and fought in some sick circlejerk of irony.

Healthcare should never be a business...it should be a service. People love to argue about economics when it's not their life on the line, or when it's conceptual. I have seen people in my situation saved by humane social systems. America's has killed me and even watching it happen to me has not budged the people around me and their extreme, nationalistic beliefs. They have decided it's my failure, fault, and this is the "greatest place on earth" and I should be grateful. I guess its probably some filter picking out inflammatory words but even this post isn't showing and makes me feel like my voice doesn't matter...as my life doesn't matter. I have met some very good people in my life so I know it's not ALWAYS bad...but I can forgive myself for thinking it usually is because people usually show it's all about them, ego, and profits. Other people are tools to that end and they don't seem to accept things until they are the victims...and then it's too late.

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#239

Post by rayiner »

jerome-jh wrote: post #161
magicalhippo wrote: post #30

When I see about half my paycheck going to taxes it feels a bit rough. But then I think of stories like this, and how easily it could have been me with an illness requiring expensive medical treatment and possibly preventing me from working regular jobs. And so I pay my tax with pleasure, knowing that if something were to happen to me or my fellow citizen, at least there wouldn't be millions of dollars in hospital bi…

From this side of the Altantic, it looks like the US economy is organized so that the lower working class only earns just enough to live. No wonder they are homeless when illness, disability or bad luck strikes. I am not implying this applies to OP.

That’s true everywhere though. In 2014, the bottom 50% in France warned just 15,000 euros per year on average: https://voxeu.org/sites/default/files/image/FromMay2014/garb.... That’s only a little bit higher than the average income of the bottom 20% in the US: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/dat.... In terms of income, the people somewhat below the median in France are doing similarly to the very bottom in the US. But none are making enough to weather illness or disability.

In most countries, most people are reliant on the safety net in the case of illness or disability. The French safety net is much more comprehensive, but the US has safety net programs. But they’re unevenly distributed across the country. When one of my family members on the west coast was unemployed, his treatment for his heart attack was covered by Medicaid. Most of the populous states extend Medicaid to everyone below a certain income level. Indeed, about 3/4 of the uninsured in the US are eligible for some sort of insurance, and many of them are eligible for Medicaid but simply don’t sign up. Some states like Texas don’t extend Medicaid to working age adults, but they’re in the minority of states.

The gulf between the US and “the other side of the Atlantic” is much smaller than it is made to seem. Federal, state, and local governments spend almost $7 trillion a year on services. We spend 35% of GDP, compared to say 38% for the UK or 41% for Spain: https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/top.... There is a bigger gap between Sweden and Spain than Spain and the US.

Moreover, people understate the structural challenges in the US that can’t be solved by money. If we just enacted universal healthcare (Medicare for All) our total government spending would jump to 50% of GDP, higher than Sweden or Norway. (And that’s not even adding in free college, etc.)

Re: No One Goes There Anymore

#240

Post by rexpop »

rayiner wrote: post #65
ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If half your paycheck is going to taxes you must have a bunch of $$$, I personally make around 300k/year and I feel like I'm not paying that much taxes. I could be paying much more and still live pretty comfortable, it's pretty outrageous.

Economists calculate taxes using the “tax wedge”—i.e. what you pay in taxes versus what you cost your employer. According to: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#WP4gh... , take home on $300,000 in California is $185,000. But including employer side payroll taxes but excluding benefits, you actually cost your employer $313,000. So your tax wedge is about 41%. Then add in the sales and property taxe…

It doesn't make sense to me to talk about a "cost to the employer" because obviously we are a profitable enough purchase to continue employing us.
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