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OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

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Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#231

Post by ikeyany »

blamestross wrote: post #227
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! You get it. I find it so hard to believe that there is supposedly zero overlap between HackerNews comment posters claiming "there is nothing morally wrong with sex work" and people who in reality when pressed with the exact situation would say "I am against my little sister performing sexual acts for money"

Sex work is ok if the situation isn't coercive. A situation where the only reasonably available alternative choices are homelessness or starvation is coercive. Sex work is fine but a system that provides it as "last ditch employment" or as a means of survival in absence of alternatives is no different than rape. This applies to a lot more than sex work though :/

Are many of these women coerced into prostituting themselves? Do you have a similar moral problem with people doing other jobs out of desperation, like back breaking labor?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#232

Post by wst_ »

sio8ohPi wrote: post #145
downerending wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there 1000 other waiters who appear to be perfectly thrilled to work without tips, why would I? If someone needs charity, I'd consider it, but I don't care to be "paid" with naked pictures in that case.

But they will work without tips. Nobody is making you tip. Why not just pay for your meal and leave?

To be honest this is how it should be. I am customer of the restaurant and waiter is employee of same restaurant. I am not paying tip to clerk in bank, nor to the hairdressers, etc. In Japan tip is not only discouraged but waiters wouldn't even accept one. Why they can do it and we don't?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#233

Post by commandlinefan »

yobin wrote: post #216
_8j50 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutley arrogant and dishonest to think your intelligence is inherited instead of developed,unless you are an exception. Unintelligent people have hard working kids that grow up to be extremely intelligent,intelligent people give birth to children that end up idiots with negative contribution to society and themselves.

False >Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73% with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80% and 86%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Even if it weren't hereditary (although I believe that it's well accepted and uncontroversial that it is), it's still pretty clear that it's innate. Even if intelligence is randomly distributed, I've never heard anybody suggest that intelligence isn't something you're just "born with" whether you got it from your parents or just got really lucky.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#234

Post by viklove »

klmadfejno wrote: post #229
seibelj wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what anyone feels "proud" about. I wouldn't be proud of my daughter being a tax accountant, I would rather she was a porn star (I am 100% serious - porn stars add value to society and make people happy). We live in a free society, and if someone wants to be filmed naked, or paid to have sex, that's their decision to make regardless if it makes you feel icky. I hope you have spent your whole life abs…

I would feel icky if all of my female colleagues who got laid off just now were economically compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with to pay for rent, food, and other debts. Lots of people have pretty shit deals. It's a free society, but they work as meat packers or facebook explicit content moderators. Not that free. I vastly prefer a system with switching costs (like needing to move somew…

> compelled to have sex with people they didn't want to have sex with

So we're not talking about OnlyFans anymore are we?

Also what about all the women who enjoy doing online sex work? Are you telling them they shouldn't be allowed to work a job they enjoy?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#235

Post by smt88 »

rufus1 wrote: post #204
smt88 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the potential for anonymity and digital-only connections, OnlyFans is a big improvement over prostitution, strip clubs, or crushing poverty. As always, the core issue is economic insecurity, not human sexuality.

more like economic insecurity combined with moral decrepitude. reduce everything to economic insecurity and you're not left with much

There is nothing inherently immoral about showing people your naked body.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#236

Post by diffrinse »

totony wrote: post #217
diffrinse wrote: post #94

The problem with modern society is everyone's a master of plausible deniability. Our obsession with legalism over plain ol ethics in America has created a culture where everyone's assessing what they can and cannot get away with and going from there, in so many ways and domains. This is why enough comments in this thread are just circular arguments thinly veiling an opinion that does not want to fully shed itself int…

I think this is exhuberated by the this very same lack of culture you are referring. Outting youself and your ethics instantly targets you to the opposing views in ways hard to defend against and enables what the "cancel culture" is good at

"Cancel Culture" is the epitome of American culture, it's truest son precisely because it is its prodigal son, exactly like the plot of King Lear, only America is King Lear, wandering around destitute still thinking its King when it thought it could have its cake and eat it too. Which goes back to my original post above.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#237

Post by victorhooi »

null0pointer wrote: post #197
ausbah wrote: post #31

I am all for letting people do what they like with their bodies, but if people are trying to makes ends meet and they believe the only way of doing so is via selling pictures of their bodies - I think society has another massive moral failing on its hands and this probably an unrefined opinion, but I feel like firing a worker for running a NSFW OnlyFans account (or similar) would, if not should, run agrounds for sexu…

> I feel like firing a worker for running a NSFW OnlyFans account (or similar) would, if not should, run agrounds for sexual harassment or unlawful termination. I don't think it should be considered unlawful termination. Someones behaviour outside work definitely has an impact on the business they're a part of. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, SW has a very real stigma attached to it that could hurt the busi…

I think your arguments are a little disingenuous, to put it mildly.

1. You compare an adult person selling nude photos of themselves to somebody attending a white supremacist rally....

Surely you can see the difference here?

One is perhaps amoral, by traditional Christian/religious values, but not illegal - just like blasphemy or swearing is no longer illegal in most parts of the world. And religious points aside, an adult selling photos of themselves without clothes on doesn't hurt anybody.

White supremacy on the other hand is closely entwined with racial discrimination - which is illegal, and does hurt people.

2. You say that it could negatively impact coworkers performance, as it might distract them.

Assuming that the videos are made on personal time, and not during work hours or during work time - I fail to see how this is the person's fault.

This is victim blaming - which is a terrible thing.

It's like saying a girl is "asking for it" based on the clothing she wears (which people have used in parts of the world to justify rape) - except in this case, it's what she wears at home, away from you.

3. Sexual harassment

I'm not going to weigh in here - this is a seriously nuanced topic with a lot of emotional content that can trigger people, and I'd make a mess of it.

All this being said - I always find it funny how Americans seem perfectly fine with insane amounts of bloody, gore and violence in television, film and games - but any hint of sexual impropriety or nudity immediately triggers them.

Oh, you can to show somebody getting decapitated, or having their fingernails torn off? Sure, that's fine, that's a normal action film.

Aha, you want to show a nude man from the front? Nope, can't do that. Oh, you want to show a woman's cleavage? Err, you're not going to get a M rating.

From what I've seen, the Europeans don't seem to have the same hangups about nudity or the human form.

I'm not a historian - but I wonder if perhaps it's the American Protestant heritage?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#238

Post by edmundsauto »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #150
edmundsauto wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience has led me to believe (as a not famous, not attractive, not well connected man) that I would not get an email back in the first place. I have no idea whether or not that is problematic, but that's my perception: that I wouldn't even get the opportunity to prove myself.

On the upside, that at least saves the time and energy of trying to figure out how to reply to someone in a way that moves things in the right direction and wondering if you are just crazy and reading in problem behavior when there is none and so forth. I was strung along for months by someone who was married and not telling me that until he finally told me one day that he was married, his marriage was in the toilet…

That's a terrible experience, and one of the many reasons networking is hard.

I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. I have always assumed that I'd prefer the opportunity to pitch at a higher rate, versus a better qualified opportunity at a much lower rate. But that's probably a fallacy.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I still don't feel bad for attractive people, since the outcome measurements clearly show it's advantageous, but the experience isn't something I'd considered prior to your comment.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#239

Post by DoreenMichele »

edmundsauto wrote: post #238
DoreenMichele wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the upside, that at least saves the time and energy of trying to figure out how to reply to someone in a way that moves things in the right direction and wondering if you are just crazy and reading in problem behavior when there is none and so forth. I was strung along for months by someone who was married and not telling me that until he finally told me one day that he was married, his marriage was in the toilet…

That's a terrible experience, and one of the many reasons networking is hard. I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener. I have always assumed that I'd prefer the opportunity to pitch at a higher rate, versus a better qualified opportunity at a much lower rate. But that's probably a fallacy. Thank you for sharing your experience. I still don't feel bad for attractive people, since the outcome measu…

I suppose my perspective is that the grass is always greener.

Sometimes the grass is greener because of all the manure in the yard.

I try hard to "count my blessings" and to figure out what's good about my situation. But the reality is I'm frequently broke, often to the point of going hungry, so I very much need to solve some questions concerning "How on Earth do you make money instead of being treated like slave labor?" (Because I get feedback that people benefit tremendously from information I share and things I do and they "value" it, they just don't want to pay me for it.)

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#240

Post by sneak »

rufus1 wrote: post #203
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The connection is fake. The men are desperate. The women are sleazy. I'm with you on the first two parts but the third one is going to get you slammed here. Women who perform sex work are held in equal/high regard by the members of this community.

it's easy to signal by saying this but how many men who say this would actually want their sister / mom / daughter participating in any sort of sex work? it's both the oldest job and the oldest taboo for a reason

What reason is that?
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