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James Damore and three others end Google suit

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Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#231

Post by convery »

ekianjo wrote: post #219
azinman2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he did become an alt-right / Fox News / conservative machine darling.

You have to consider the possibility that they were the only people who he could actually talk to. Not that he wanted to be in such channels in the first place.

My first thought as well. You see liberals invited onto conservative outlets for genuine debates / opinions. Rarely see liberal outlets do the same as guilt by association, causing anyone who's ever been in the same room as an 'alt-right' to be tainted, seem to be rampant.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#232

Post by seemslegit »

dijit wrote: post #211
seemslegit wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden did not "defect to Russia", he got stuck in Russia while in transit after the US cancelled his passport.

Seems like you and the parent are agreeing.

Maybe, but I think Snowden would have preferred to be pretty much anywhere else while Dammer was just too inexperienced to recognize that being popular in some circles is more of a liability than asset.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#233

Post by legolas2412 »

mirimir wrote: post #74
starchild_3001 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dude is talking about probabilities and distributions, while the stats-ignorant public is generalizing to every individual. It's impossible to have a scientific and open minded debate about the differences between genders. Even theorizing biologic differences exist makes you a sexist. Let alone bringing up this question in public. Edit: Yes, his memo is totally tone deaf. I thought his wording was very questionab…

> Even theorizing biologic differences exist makes you a sexist. Eggs vs sperm -- plumbing aside -- is a fundamental biologic difference. And bringing a pregnancy to term, and delivering without bleeding out, sort of requires a uterus. But of course, it's gotta stop there. Edit: If someone wants to explain away such differences, I'd love to see the argument.

> But of course, it's gotta stop there.

What about higher amount of testosterone making men have more muscles and better sprinters?

There are biological differences that affect performance in various activities. How much in comparison to nurture, and in what activities, seems to be an open question

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#234

Post by jashmatthews »

waheoo wrote: post #155
jashmatthews wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate Damore deliberately chose to cast doubt on whether the women Google hired were as good as the men. Otherwise, it's easier and less controversial to just argue that any form of discrimination is wrong.

It doesnt cast doubt though.. You cant have so much more women than the rest of the industry without that being true. There literally is not enough women coming through engineering schools to allow for that without you a) discriminating against men based on sex, and b) lowering the bar for women. There is no doubt. It is a mathematical given.

At the time, a Googler explained here how they did it without doing either a or b https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14957764

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#235

Post by spangry »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #226

I am shocked that there is even a discussion to be had on this. In architecture (a somewhat older profession, but also concerning things constructed by people), women previously did have a hard time, and often had to practice under their husbands/partners name. Mercifully this ended some while ago, and now architecture schools and onwards are more evenly gender balanced. Nobody suggests that women are somehow natural…

What country is this? In my country (Australia), the percentage of licensed female architects is around 20%, and this percentage seems to be about the same in the USA and UK. Europe seems a little better with around 30% female representation.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#236

Post by zozbot234 »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #226

I am shocked that there is even a discussion to be had on this. In architecture (a somewhat older profession, but also concerning things constructed by people), women previously did have a hard time, and often had to practice under their husbands/partners name. Mercifully this ended some while ago, and now architecture schools and onwards are more evenly gender balanced. Nobody suggests that women are somehow natural…

Not just architecture, also medicine and law. The whole question is what's different about math, CS, engineering and the physical sciences that makes it so much harder to reach gender balance there? If you look at the commonalities that these fields share, the "things, not people" aspect is the most prominent by far.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#237

Post by dhhwrongagain »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #226

I am shocked that there is even a discussion to be had on this. In architecture (a somewhat older profession, but also concerning things constructed by people), women previously did have a hard time, and often had to practice under their husbands/partners name. Mercifully this ended some while ago, and now architecture schools and onwards are more evenly gender balanced. Nobody suggests that women are somehow natural…

Damore never claimed women were intrinsically less inclined to engineering.

He cited the big five personality trait model as evidence for why engineering culture is not welcoming to women.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#238

Post by spangry »

mabbo wrote: post #184

Damore committed the ultimate sin in the corporate world- he caused a huge PR mess. Let's set aside the content of his memo (I personally don't agree with what he said) and just appreciate that he made a mess. As has been said before, if your CEO learns your name for the same reason he has to end his vacation early, you probably should start polishing up your resume.

If making a mess is what gets you fired, shouldn't google have gone after whoever leaked the memo, instead of Damore?

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#240

Post by darkerside »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #153
exogeny wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This view to me is just as tone deaf at Damore's piece itself. Whether or not you agree or disagree, it clearly had an impact of making a very large and significant segment of female employees at Google feel as if they were biologically inferior or otherwise not suited to do their jobs. You can sit here and say "Oh, that's nuts, that's not what he said" - but you're also not hearing the same internalized misogyny and…

I'd say the reporting about Damore had a larger impact than Damore ever did.

Nah, this was likely already making the rounds at Google and causing massive disruption. People don't need media to get them all worked up, although it certainly helps.
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