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Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

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Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#231

Post by murgaan »

Unklejoe wrote: post #51
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

That probably depends on the industry. At my last job (embedded software for a defense contractor), I was actually the youngest at 28. The guy to the right of me was in his mid 60's, the guy behind me was 50, and my boss was 52. I think the only other engineer not over 50 was this one guy who was in his late 30's. It seems like in the defense industry, it's almost the opposite.

This has very much been my experience. I used to be the young guy. Now I'm the middle aged guy. I work with all kinds of developers older than I am all across the embedded software industry.The oldest guy on our team is in his 60s. It helps that tried and true technology which still underpins everything else (C, POSIX, sockets, serial comms) doesn't drastically change with every new hype and trend. Sure, it changes and will change but in units of decades. The next airplanes aren't going all Rust any time soon. And even cutting edge companies like Tesla/SPACEX need old school C programmers. And when/if it goes all Rust or something else, I don't think us old guys are going to have too much trouble switching over, and the ones who do can spend all their time maintaining legacy systems. In other words, I don't see how I (in my early forties) could outlive my usefulness.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#232

Post by engrsrce »

jordanpg wrote: post #138
engrsrce wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's pretty naive. I've worked with some pretty good teams that wouldn't work any other way. I suspect you've only worked at places that abused agile as described here... https://ronjeffries.com/articles/language-of-hatred/

No, I've worked in places where it works just fine. The point is that, at the end of the day, it boils down elaborate processes to break things up into two-week chunks of work. That's it. That's the bit I thought was a concise, excellent summary. Sometimes, for certain flavors of apps and tech and teams, that model works splendidly. Sometimes, it is silly administrative window dressing that is completely disconnected…

"Elaborate processes" and "closely scripted, narrowly defined workflow" aren't adjectives I'd ever use for agile done well. And I've been doing it since we were allowed to call it eXtreme Programming. There's lots of "Dark Scrum" out there. Sounds like those are your experiences. They're not mine.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#233

Post by rezeroed »

onion2k wrote: post #49
rezeroed wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only read the start. I'm not sure what I make of someone going from zero to Amazon. Is that normal?

Amazon recruit huge numbers of graduates, so obviously that's a yes. I think their graduate roles pay quite well too. But if this article is to be believed, they also do things like using 15 different languages on the tech stack (16 to choose from minus PHP because it's banned) and give you the idea that estimates are worthless. If your workplace is doing things like that it's a very bad sign in my opinion.

I expected those graduates would have tech degrees, rather than "I picked up programming a few years out of college".

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#234

Post by dustingetz »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I think this is fully explained by 48 Laws of Power, Law #1: Never Outshine the Master. How is it in the best interests of a 30yo engineering manager to hire someone older than him? His best interest is to expand his command using the only way he knows for sure will work which is to hire younger versions of himself.

PS if you just need a job try the huge government contractors

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#235

Post by schnable »

klohto wrote: post #40
cellularmitosis wrote: post #23

"To replace out MediaWiki with a Java-based alternative (XWiki) ended up taking a total fo 24 dev-years over 4+ calendar years for the team, not counting the interruptions to pretty much every other team at Amazon as their pages were getting constantly migrated and un-migrated" I would love to hear more about this. I'm guessing that's a cost of at least $4M? How was this approved? How did they allow it to continue fo…

I don't understand why are corporations obsessed with decommissioning wikis. When I was at Red Hat, they tried to decommission local country wiki in favor of their company-wide wiki (Mojo, absolute shit by the way). They tried for about 2 years, then finally somebody said "what the fuck are we doing" and the migration was stopped. I believe the banner "Decommissioning soon" still hangs there.

What happens is that different teams build out their own wikis , or come in via acquisition). The company then ends up with a dozen of them, and re-orgs occur and a single team now has two wikis, and people wonder why the information isn't centralized. Everyone agrees it will be great to have a singe company wide wiki and the project is born.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#236

Post by joelbluminator »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #157
devnullbyte wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case anyone reads this and gets very worried about getting older and being destitute, its certainly not always the case. I am 48 years old and having a blast. I am team lead working in the companies CTO office. I play around with build systems, making everything cloud native (kubernetes) and I get to work on a good amount of upstream open source projects. My company does not see my age at all, they just see m…

I’m over the hill, expensive, and want to spend more time with family vs work. Shouldn’t minimize the reality of getting old.

well in your 50s your kids are grown, in your 30s they were just born. So companies are better hiring 50 year olds?

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#237

Post by sgt101 »

LandR wrote: post #75
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I keep hearing that it's like this in the US. In the UK I don't know anyone in their 40s struggling to find software developer jobs in the UK! I'm almost 40 and are constantly getting harassed by recruiters. My mate in his 60s not long ago got hired for a software developer role, and easily at that. Two interviews and he got an offer. Another mate near 40 stepped back from manager type role into a developer role, and…

I think a big factor is health insurance in the USA. If you are in your 40's you probably have a partner and kids. Your company will have to cover all of this, and if the kids get a condition things can be expensive. So, I think that they consciously focus on younger people to drive the costs down.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#240

Post by duggan »

dleslie wrote: post #127
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I am almost 40, and I fully expect this to be my last software development job. Likewise, I've never had a negative performance review and am usually the top task-killer and bug-destroyer; but when recruiters call and find out I'm married with kids they can't seem to hang up fast enough. I'm saving as much as I can. The end is nigh.

> when recruiters call and find out I'm married with kids they can't seem to hang up fast enough.

I don't really understand why this would be the case. From a purely practical standpoint, people loaded up with a family are more likely to stay and perform in a job for income stability.

I guess if a company is looking for people to burn through like firewood this might not be the case, but I think those are the places you want to avoid anyway!

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