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Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

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Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#231

Post by tomjen3 »

mrspeaker wrote: post #4

Great article! It's funny to finally see ad blockers go "mainstream". My dystopian-future fear is that that Web Assembly will be the end of ad blocking (and the end of a web of connected web sites). Big sites will eventually convert to essentially "a web browser inside a web browser" so they have total control over the content and how it's displayed. Then ad blocking (and other customization) will be limited to "the…

That seems far more likely to me than I would like to admit. I can even see a rational that doesn't start that way, but with a homegrown solution in Webassembly it would be fast enough that you could write your own font and text layout algorithms that are better than what the browser does -- so your newspaper could do a proper justified text with great kerned headlines that would also look the same way in all browsers.

Then, naturally, there is no dev time set aside for copy and paste, because there is no business justification.

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#232

Post by 29083011397778 »

curiousgal wrote: post #222
notriddle wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or use Firefox Preview and uBlock Origin.

Yeah but that doesn’t block in-app ads

Honest question, but which apps are both required (don't work in-browser) and don't serve ads from their own network (Youtube, Facebook)?

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#233

Post by Bombthecat »

kevingadd wrote: post #227
notriddle wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's faster. That's literally it. There aren't any new I/O facilities.

A few examples of things it adds that are not widely available in JS (if at all, or requiring awkward hacks/hints in JS), off the top of my head: int64 uint32 popcnt copysign reinterpret_cast equivalent (the js hack for this is abysmal) pthreads SIMD AOT compilation To be fair, it's been a while since I was last one of the authors of the webassembly spec, so I could be missing some things.

Could ads be served with web assembly?

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#234

Post by kevingadd »

Bombthecat wrote: post #233
kevingadd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few examples of things it adds that are not widely available in JS (if at all, or requiring awkward hacks/hints in JS), off the top of my head: int64 uint32 popcnt copysign reinterpret_cast equivalent (the js hack for this is abysmal) pthreads SIMD AOT compilation To be fair, it's been a while since I was last one of the authors of the webassembly spec, so I could be missing some things.

Could ads be served with web assembly?

Yes, though I don't know if it makes sense to do it for any reason other than hiding from ad blockers.

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#235

Post by Bombthecat »

kevingadd wrote: post #234
Bombthecat wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could ads be served with web assembly?

Yes, though I don't know if it makes sense to do it for any reason other than hiding from ad blockers.

Well, for some it is the only reason needed...

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#236

Post by blntechie »

mobjack wrote: post #188
korethr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the ad. In the before time, long ago, ads were a simple static image or body of text. And in that case, while not impossible, it's rather hard to compromise a computer with a static image or block of text. You'd have to have a fairly specific image crafted to adversarially target a specific bug in the rendering of images to get code execution, and thus compromise a computer. It is no longer the before t…

Are there any ad networks that allow random advertisers to include custom JavaScript in ads? It just seems like a huge security hole and is not in the interest of ad networks for multiple reasons. They might have JS in ads, but isn't that from the ad network's infrastructure.

I have seen ads trigger site redirects, app download redirect to app stores etc. and even initiate apk(Android app package) file downloads automatically.

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#237

Post by chrysoprace »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #225
dvh wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the ultimate end of every free image hosting service.

Being able to work on Firefox but not their own app?

I think they're referring to the Imgur mobile website, which no longer allows uploads, requiring you to download the Imgur app.

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#238

Post by manicdee »

mobjack wrote: post #188
korethr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the ad. In the before time, long ago, ads were a simple static image or body of text. And in that case, while not impossible, it's rather hard to compromise a computer with a static image or block of text. You'd have to have a fairly specific image crafted to adversarially target a specific bug in the rendering of images to get code execution, and thus compromise a computer. It is no longer the before t…

Are there any ad networks that allow random advertisers to include custom JavaScript in ads? It just seems like a huge security hole and is not in the interest of ad networks for multiple reasons. They might have JS in ads, but isn't that from the ad network's infrastructure.

What is in the interest of the ad networks is income and plausible deniability.

“Sorry we didn’t realise that there was malicious content in that ad, we’ll do better in the future, and we’ll also work on taking less than four days to remove malicious content.”

In the meantime the reason ads are being bought is the ability to deploy customer enrichment experiences (the new name for malware) which will help customers better discover your product (by redirecting their browser, or rewriting links).

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#239

Post by JeremyNT »

krapp wrote: post #230
pixl97 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and just gone completely with Flash, Silverlight or Java Not sure what you mean by that. There were plenty of sites not usable at times because of their use of java or flash.

The thesis is that the existence of Webassembly, alone, means that all ad-supported sites will inevitably be rewritten entirely as WASM blobs in order to prevent the use of ad blockers. The typical doomsday scenario also includes the conversion of rest of the web to WASM, with support for HTML being entirely deprecated in all browsers, so that corporate interests can lock down, centralize and control the web entirely…

> The thesis is that the existence of Webassembly, alone, means that all ad-supported sites will inevitably be rewritten entirely as WASM blobs in order to prevent the use of ad blockers. The typical doomsday scenario also includes the conversion of rest of the web to WASM, with support for HTML being entirely deprecated in all browsers, so that corporate interests can lock down, centralize and control the web entirely.

The thesis is that WASM will be the form of HTML's destruction, not that it is the only tool capable of it.

A confluence of trend lines lead it to be "in the right place at the right time." We've already come to accept that much of the web requires javascript, if it works in Google Chrome then that's fine, and video content requires DRM blobs.

The public is ready for this, and ad-supported content providers are floundering even though the fed keeps printing money.

With how much money is spent on bogus technical solutions in the ad space with marginal or no recognizable benefit, the time is right for innovation, and WASM is arriving just in time. Just like with AMP, I'm sure WASM-AMP will be sold for its amazing performance characteristics, because the modern web is so full of trash how could it not be at least better than the status quo?

WASM isn't some uniquely horrific development, it's just the next evolution in the downward trajectory.

Re: Are ad blockers doomed or have we already won? A history lesson

#240

Post by UnFleshedOne »

mrspeaker wrote: post #4

Great article! It's funny to finally see ad blockers go "mainstream". My dystopian-future fear is that that Web Assembly will be the end of ad blocking (and the end of a web of connected web sites). Big sites will eventually convert to essentially "a web browser inside a web browser" so they have total control over the content and how it's displayed. Then ad blocking (and other customization) will be limited to "the…

The good outcome would be that after analog hole is plugged on the web, we can start plugging it IRL (if AR gear and/or spray paint drones mature by the time). Imagine physical space with no ads!

So, bring it on?

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