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Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

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Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#231

Post by SolaceQuantum »

RestlessMind wrote: post #226
uncletaco wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security and Medicare are both social safety nets that one cannot take advantage of while they're working in most cases, and everything else you've mentioned either requires a person to be in extreme poverty or severely disabled. Meanwhile a healthy, young, gainfully employed person in France can take advantage of a wealth of social services and benefits. Mentioning them the way you have requires a very unchar…

> Meanwhile a healthy, young, gainfully employed person in France can take advantage of a wealth of social services and benefits. If they have such an amazing welfare system, then why are the French perennially rioting[1]? And why do so many recent French presidents have abysmal approval ratings[2]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... [2] Macron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p…

The approval rating doesn't seem to be much better than US Gov't[0].

Also, the US is also constantly protesting too. What do you think Black Lives Matter, the Google Walkout, the Amazon protests in NYC, the current and ongoing unrest surrounding ICE camps, and the teachers union strike in LA are?

0. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#232

Post by bootlooped »

halbritt wrote: post #157

In my experience https://www.levels.fyi provides much better information than random tweets. Not everyone works for a FAANG, but it's useful to know what their influence is in the market.

I wish there were just a little better filtering/sorting on their data. I want to know what people with my years of experience, in my metro area, in my specialization are making. You can kind of get some of that info, in certain forms. If their data (the data that is already publicly viewable on their website) were in a relational database I could write a query in about 60 seconds to pluck out what I want to know.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#233

Post by noelwelsh »

tsycho wrote: post #175
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a junior sysadmin in London I earned 26k; If not for a senior engineer talking openly about salary I would not have had the guts to ask for a significant increase. At the time the very senior people in the company were earning 75-85k, and the mid-levels between 32-45k. I was fortunate enough to be taught very well, I became senior in that company in a very short amount of time, but I never got the raise th…

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

US median family income was $60,336 in 2017, and $71,805 in California[1]. Junior developers in Silicon Valley have starting salaries around $110000, and I've heard for new college graduates getting up to $150K. I.e. twice median family income. You cannot have these high salaries without someone else getting shafted. There simply isn't enough money for everyone to be earning like this.

Whether you consider inequality a problem is down to your politics, but in general the UK is a more equal society (slightly less social mobility but less inequality) than the US and hence salaries are lower.

[1]: https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/california/

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#234

Post by theredlion »

scarface74 wrote: post #217
theredlion wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their salary shouldn’t be affected by their negotiation ability. I can't disagree more with this statement. Salary is a negotiation process between an employee and an employer. Employers are always trying to keep costs as low as possible and employees are trying to sell themselves to gain as high a salary as possible. This sounds awfully close to ideas I've heard from pro-Socialist types who would like pure equalit…

Isn’t it a stretch to call it “socialism” that the same job at the same company with two people who have the same set of skills “socialism”? In that case though since a free market is conditioned on both sides having equal knowledge would you be okay if employees were forced to disclose all employees salaries?

It certainly begins to play into the realm of Socialism when one advocates that there should be laws in place which mandate salary laws which restrict an individual's ability to negotiate for themselves. I'm not saying that you're necessarily advocating for that because I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I have been involved in a number of discussions with people who are interested in exploring that path.

> In that case though since a free market is conditioned on both sides having equal knowledge would you be okay if employees were forced to disclose all employees salaries?

That is an interesting idea to think over. I would take out the word "forced". There are pros and cons to employees being knowledgeable about each other's salaries and many companies put the effort in to make salary discussion among employees a taboo.

The idea of a company reprimanding the mere discussion of salary is not a quality I would value, but would not necessarily turn me off to that company depending on numerous other factors: a prominent one being WHY that is the case at that particular company.

Also looking back at your comment again, I wouldn't say that I agree with the idea that "a free market is conditioned on both sides having equal knowledge". As a matter of fact, I don't see how that could be inferred. I would lean towards the idea that both parties should try and have as much information as possible. If that works out in my favor, then great. If it works out against me, then I obviously have more research to do.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#235

Post by scarejunba »

noelwelsh wrote: post #233
tsycho wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

US median family income was $60,336 in 2017, and $71,805 in California[1]. Junior developers in Silicon Valley have starting salaries around $110000, and I've heard for new college graduates getting up to $150K. I.e. twice median family income. You cannot have these high salaries without someone else getting shafted. There simply isn't enough money for everyone to be earning like this. Whether you consider inequality…

> You cannot have these high salaries without someone else getting shafted. There simply isn't enough money for everyone to be earning like this.

Please substantiate your claim to this being zero sum. It does not seem self-evident.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#236

Post by agumonkey »

motohagiography wrote: post #158

Contrarian view: salary disclosure destroys value for people with negotiating skills, which are among the most valuable and useful skills of all. Disclosure advantages people who collude to apply political pressure (gang up) instead of appealing to principles or leveraging their skill and the value they bring. There is general social and economic harm to facilitating this behaviour. Disclosure lowers all boats in tha…

This is all fine and I agree partly

That said I hate negotiation because:

1) I'm not a shark I want open honest talks

2) negotiation can be hacked (a lot of people have charm and can lie their way through) so here goes its 'value'.

It genuinely sucks life out of me when I have to play these games. To the point that I'm giving code for 1% of its market value to a small business because I actually have a human relationship with him.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#237

Post by iso1210 »

throwaway3157 wrote: post #119
iso1210 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company did a pan-company investigation into how much people were being paid, and found that in every job title Women were being paid on average 30% less then men. With that in hand it's clear that it makes more sense to employ women.

I’ve heard 30% in another anecdote once. Was this same role or across roles? It would be hard to compare Apple to Oranges

Senior DBA vs Senior DBA, Junior Network admin vs Junior Network admin, etc. Didn't matter which part of the company the pattern was there.

Some roles were nearly 40%, some down to 15-20%, but overall it was "about 30%"

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#239

Post by RestlessMind »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #231
RestlessMind wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile a healthy, young, gainfully employed person in France can take advantage of a wealth of social services and benefits. If they have such an amazing welfare system, then why are the French perennially rioting[1]? And why do so many recent French presidents have abysmal approval ratings[2]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr... [2] Macron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p…

The approval rating doesn't seem to be much better than US Gov't[0]. Also, the US is also constantly protesting too. What do you think Black Lives Matter, the Google Walkout, the Amazon protests in NYC, the current and ongoing unrest surrounding ICE camps, and the teachers union strike in LA are? 0. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

But the GP was trying to point out how France is much better than the US. With a better system, I would expect less protests and better approval ratings.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#240

Post by paul7986 »

orangecat wrote: post #227
paul7986 wrote: post #184

Reading the tweets and those who have many years of experience (live in the US) and are not making what they should says they do not know how to get their best deal. Like any software dev who wants to maximize their salary should never stay at one job for more then a year or two. Job jumping and using recruiters to do so is a great way to give yourself a big boost with each new job you jump to. Staying put in one job…

Like any software dev who wants to maximize their salary should never stay at one job for more then a year or two. Job jumping and using recruiters to do so is a great way to give yourself a big boost with each new job you jump to. This is not true at FAANGs, where a large part of your compensation comes from multiple RSU grants vesting concurrently. Even if you never get a promotion or significant raise, your total…

ah true and pardon my comment is geared towards working outside of the huge tech companies. Those working at those companies are most likely smart enough to know their worth and get their best deal.
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