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'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

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Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#231
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you should tell us how they are not based on sound research and logic. Of course, some of what he says may just be his personal opinions. You say that he is a foul and bitter man with terrible personal views, but that is your own opinion and not objectively true.

> No, you should tell us how they are not based on sound research and logic. Your claim is simply a just-so statement. You're the one making an unjustified assumption. Why should I assume you're correct by default? Until you actually provide any plausible reason why I should take it seriously, your claim is invalid. The impetus is on _you_.

Here's some research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality

There's a lot of emotional hysterical screeching accusations of "racism" but those aren't valid arguments.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#232
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"East Africans are crushingly dominant in marathon running." To be more precise, East Africans from East Africa. The effect of biology dissipates in East African communities living abroad.

Yes, if people have other better opportunities then they’re likely to pursue those. I highly doubt they dissipate entirely, if only because biomechanics don’t change. Being tall and skinny with long legs compared to most people will place those of East African ancestry at an advantage for long distance running regardless of culture. As the East African diaspora increases you’ll see more nationalities represented amon…

> Yes, if people have other better opportunities then they’re likely to pursue those.

Right, so all those olympic athletes from the rest of the world are merely under-achievers in their own societies?

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#233
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of evidence already showing the concentration of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere going back many thousands of years (from core samples). There really isn't any room left for debate, because the facts are clear, the only question is "just how bad will it be with all this extra carbon in the atmosphere?".

>We have plenty of evidence already showing the concentration of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere going back many thousands of years Excellent example! I'm no climate scientist, but I am a former geoscientist, and as it happens, all of our estimates for historic atmospheric conditions are based on various proxies which in turn are rooted in assumptions. Let's take a look at ice cores, for example. The theory is that bubbles…

> Remember, scientists need to eat too.

The oil industry is literally the wealthiest industry in the history of the world. Oil companies and petrostates are perfectly capable of funding and feeding any and all contrarian scientists. I find it really hard to believe that the stigma of being labeled a 'denier' is what is holding back researchers. More likely is that plenty of research is being or has been done, but nothing truly compelling has yet to be found.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#234
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if people have other better opportunities then they’re likely to pursue those. I highly doubt they dissipate entirely, if only because biomechanics don’t change. Being tall and skinny with long legs compared to most people will place those of East African ancestry at an advantage for long distance running regardless of culture. As the East African diaspora increases you’ll see more nationalities represented amon…

> Yes, if people have other better opportunities then they’re likely to pursue those. Right, so all those olympic athletes from the rest of the world are merely under-achievers in their own societies?

No, but the better the outside options are the less likely people who are athletically gifted are to pursue an athletic career. Think on the margin. There are a lot of people working as quants on Wall Street who would be mathematicians and physicists if there were jobs for them. Likewise as Kenya develops economically a lot of people who could be long distance runners will pursue other opportunities.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#235
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want your children to live in a world with +4 degrees because some purely financially motivated people stopped progress on the environmental protection front?

Come on you guys, please keep predictable rhetoric off this site. It's tedious and we're here for curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If this is predictable rhetoric to you, ok. It’s not personal slander, it’s a question to reflect upon for a lot of people.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#236
post #219
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every result ever has pointed that all races and genders are equally "intelligent" and well-suited to the same tasks. Really? The strongest rebuttals I ever saw boiled down to "it has not yet been conclusively proven impossible that all races are equally intelligent". Large meta-analyses certainly always find correlation, this one goes a long way towards showing there is causation as well: https://doi.org/10.1111%2…

> Large meta-analyses certainly always find correlation No legitimate study has actually shown that such correlations are caused by genetic factors. However, numerous studies have shown that social factors (i.e. not having access to good schools, not having access to decent healthcare, etc, which statistically and historically correspond with racial divisions) play a major role.

So showing a correlation between environment and intelligence is clear proof that environment plays a role, but the same kind of correlation with ancestry tells us nothing? Even when economic [1] and environmental factors [2] are corrected for (to the best of our ability), and the differences persist?

No matter what the data is, you can always construct some convoluted theory by which ancestry doesn't play a role, just like you can keep adding spheres to make a geocentric solar system work.

[1] http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.g...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption...

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#237
post #65

> " By Peter W. Wood" > " Mr. Wood is president of the National Association of Scholars. " Of course the person being "cancelled" would write an opinion piece on "cancel culture". One person criticised his event on twitter and he wrote an opinion piece on WSJ about how he's being persecuted. This seems incredibly childish to me. Especially considering the original tweet* got under 100 retweets and about 130 likes. Ho…

This does seem to be a perfect example of "cancel culture" though, someone is mad that regular people get to talk about them on the internet and them being "cancelled" has meant they get more attention, more press and their career is unaffected.

And most of the people complaining about it don't care about the specifics but want a chance to vent about the fact that their preferred version of phrenology isn't taken seriously anymore.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus if denialism is wrong, then there should be nothing to worry about anyway. I don't follow the logic of that. If denialism is wrong, but it's influencing society and policy, how is that not something to worry about?

If your side is failing to convince people, the solution shouldn’t be “shut up the other side”, no matter how right you may be. It’s intellectually dishonest. By engaging in cancel culture, it gives the silenced side way more credibility, because they can say “why are they afraid to let us speak?” It’s not just that cancel culture is morally bad, its also ineffective.

“Your side” is exactly the problem. You’re making this up. Climate scientists do their work for the greater good and not to advance agendas. This is ridiculous.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#239

One problem is that tenure and standing for established scientists no longer afford any of the expected protections. James Watson was not discredited but promptly fired and "disgraced" for stating a well-supported scientific finding in abrupt layman's terms for an interview. The minds of cancel culture would probably say they gave this dinosaur enough chances to fade away, but he wouldn't. If they do want scientists…

> If they do want scientists to be free to investigate the genetic and other bases of IQ further in order to find better answers

It's quite obvious they don't want that, so they can continue to stretch the remaining gaps in knowledge enough to fit the entire blank slate hypothesis inside.

Re: 'Cancel Culture' Comes to Science?

#240
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, you should tell us how they are not based on sound research and logic. Your claim is simply a just-so statement. You're the one making an unjustified assumption. Why should I assume you're correct by default? Until you actually provide any plausible reason why I should take it seriously, your claim is invalid. The impetus is on _you_.

Here's some research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality There's a lot of emotional hysterical screeching accusations of "racism" but those aren't valid arguments.

You clearly didn't even read these wikipedia pages. Although they are about two different publications (one from 2002 and the other from 2006), each book is basically the exact same, and the latter presents the exact same flimsy evidence as the former.

Also, from the contents of these very same wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#R... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality#Recep...

> Several negative reviews of the book have been published in the scholarly literature. Susan Barnett and Wendy Williams wrote that "we see an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation. The data on which the entire book is based are of questionable validity and are used in ways that cannot be justified." They also wrote that cross country comparisons are "virtually meaningless."[4]

> Richardson (2004) argued, citing the Flynn effect as the best evidence, that Lynn has the causal connection backwards and suggested that "the average IQ of a population is simply an index of the size of its middle class, both of which are results of industrial development". The review concludes that "This is not so much science, then, as a social crusade."[3]

> In a book review for the Journal of Economic Literature, Thomas Nechyba wrote that "such sweeping conclusions based on relatively weak statistical evidence and dubious presumptions seem misguided at best and quite dangerous if taken seriously. It is therefore difficult to find much to recommend in this book."[6]

> The methods of the study were criticized by Richard E. Nisbett for relying on small and haphazard samples and for ignoring data that did not support the conclusions.[10]

> University of Reading geographer Stephen Morse also criticized the book (as well as IQ and the Wealth of Nations), arguing that the authors' hypothesis rests on "serious flaws". Morse also argued: "The central dilemma of the Lynn and Vanhanen case rests with their assumption that national IQ data are primarily (not wholly) a function of innate ability, which in turn is at least partly generated by genes. There are many assumptions of cause–effect in here, and some of them involve substantial leaps of faith."[11]

> Evolutionary biologist Satoshi Kanazawa claimed in 2008 to have found support for Lynn's theories.[10] Kanazawa's study has been criticized for using the Pythagorean theorem to estimate geographic distance, despite the fact that this theorem only applies to flat surfaces and the Earth's surface is roughly spherical. Other problems identified in this study include that Kanazawa incorrectly assumed that individuals migrated from Africa to other continents migrated as the crow flies, and ignored that geographic distance and evolutionary novelty do not always correspond to each other.[11]

> Earl Hunt cited Lynn and Vanhanen's work as an example of scientists going far beyond the empirical support to make controversial policy recommendations, and as such as examples of irresponsible uses of science. Hunt argues that in their argumentation they both made the basic mistake of assigning causality to a correlation without evidence, and that they made "staggeringly low" estimates of Sub-Saharan African IQs based on highly problematic data. He considers that by their negligence of observing good scientific practice Lynn and Vanhanen are not living up to the basic responsibility of scientists to make sure that their results can function as reasonable empirical support for policy decisions.[19]

> There's a lot of emotional hysterical screeching accusations of "racism" but those aren't valid arguments.

This is simply not true. I'm arguing that your claim is not based on solid rational foundations. You are the one throwing around irrational accusations, not me.

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