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Video Gaming Will Take Over

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Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#231

Post by on_and_off »

FooHentai wrote: post #3

>Cloud gaming means you will be able to take your game “everywhere” and avoid dreaded 20-minute updates before you can start playing. Doubt. In the same way that movies on PSP had this idea in mind but fell flat on it's face, games are strongly tied to the format and environment in which you consume them. FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse isn't coming with you on your phone for the morning commute, and no amount o…

Everywhere in this context might not mean in your commute.

One of my gaming friends who is a big fan of Stadia loves it because it means that even though they travel a lot, they will be able to play [enter big aaa pc game] from the comfort of their hotel room (they travel a lot).

Personally, I think I might be tempted to use stadia for another reason : I love FPSs but I have abandoned pc gaming in favor of consoles. I will try to use Stadia in order to play Doom eternal : this way I can play with a mouse and keyboard without having to invest the time, money, space and energy to build a gaming pc.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#232

Post by clarry »

belltaco wrote: post #141
apazzolini wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many, many others) notice lag in games with v-sync turned on vs off, and we're talking about single digit milliseconds there. It's possible that Stadia might be "good enough" for casual gaming (and granted, that's a very large market segment), but I don't think it will ever be good enough for anyone who is sensitive to latency.

>I (and many, many others) notice lag in games with v-sync turned on vs off, and we're talking about single digit milliseconds there. Indeed, I found this recently out in a double-blind kind of way, when running at 165hz. I had to take out my GPU to fix the fan, so I wanted to try playing some demanding games on my integrated Intel GPU. I switched settings to the lowest (along with the game itself auto downgrading se…

I feel like there must be something way wrong with the way vsync is implemented in most games. It often feels like it adds massive latency (like an entire extra buffered frame, like bad implementations of triple buffering), but if my FPS is close to what it would be with vsync, then I don't see why it should add much latency.

That is to say, on my 60Hz monitor, I don't feel much difference between 60 FPS and anything above with vsync off. But if I go from from 70FPS (vsync off) to 60 FPS (vsync on), it's yarrgh unplayable, as far as first person shooters go.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#233

Post by zubspace »

apazzolini wrote: post #73
dudus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More PoPs and fiber. Both which are already much more ubiquitous than a few years ago and fast expanding. Plus you don't need to reach everyone for a successful product. Just a critical mass

I (and many, many others) notice lag in games with v-sync turned on vs off, and we're talking about single digit milliseconds there. It's possible that Stadia might be "good enough" for casual gaming (and granted, that's a very large market segment), but I don't think it will ever be good enough for anyone who is sensitive to latency.

This is something which irks me.

All major engines (Unity, Unreal and even Godot) provide 2 different mechanisms for callbacks in your scripts: A callback before each rendered frame and a callback before each physic step (Update() and FixedUpdate() in Unity).

Now, physics always run in a fixed time step. Usually 60 times per second. If you move your player, the game will always need to wait for the next physic callback to move the entity around. Same for spawning projectiles and or checking hitscan weapons with raycasts. You always need to wait.

In this case, when V-Sync is on an your screen updates at 60Hz per second everything is fine. But on a screen with 144Hz, there is inevitable input lag.

Can someone tell me, how on earth can this be improved by disabling V-Sync? It's basically not possible to reduce input lag in this scenario.

I know there are ways to hide the lag through Input Prediction and Entity Interpolation, but those are necessary band-aids for multiplayer games, where you accept lag which is already an order of a magnitude larger than local input lag. And for single-player games? If you introduce physics your oh-so-nice 1000 Frames per Seconds are basically useless. But please tell me, if I missed something.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#234

Post by burntoutfire »

prawn wrote: post #128
amiantos wrote: post #92

Article seems to forget that there are vast swaths of the population that do not play games. They do not have the patience to learn how to play games, not even console games with simpler controls. Even casual games require some level of skill to play, or they're not any fun, and the joy of television is that you do not need any special skill to enjoy it. This isn't even getting into people who view games as a waste o…

Something I think about is how there have been outstanding games that the majority of people will never play. Just in recent years - Red Dead I and II, Horizon Zero Dawn, Last of Us, etc. These have quality/polish up with Breaking Bad or any acclaimed movie/TV, but no one else in my extended family would have played a second of any of them. How do you bring that experience to people?

Most people just don't seem interested in video games. You don't "bring it" to them, the same way as you don't bring for example fishing to people who have no interest in it.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#235

Post by burntoutfire »

What game proponents seem to miss is that most people are mostly interested in other people (we are predominantly social creatures after all). Books, movies, tv shows can create extremely lifelike immersive experiences that center around people. Games, on the other hand, suck at it - humans are way to hard for a computer to simulate. The current fallback is to have scripted bits of bad movies/books embedded in between the mechanistic gameplay, which makes most people just want to grab for the real thing (movie/book). Hence games are mostly popular among young people, who haven't developed much taste yet and who have a lot of time to kill, and fill it with the mechanistic gameplay.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#236

Post by friendlybus »

usrusr wrote: post #215
leksak wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of an idea, has there ever been any multi-tiered games such that, 1. Each tier is its own game, 2. The games are not independent As a simple, two-game, example. Imagine a strategy game such as Shogun (turn-based strategy). When the players kn that game start conflicts that opens up a match for FPS-type players to join. The outcome of the battle will depend on the FPS-player performance while the match…

I doubt that "each tier is it's own game" could ever really work: what about the different time scales? It's bad enough already in the Total War series where the strategy and battle compete more than complement. What would be in it for the player extras on the tactical level? It's hard enough for level design and matchmaking to compose a match of random internet players when there are no further constraints, forcing…

There was a multiplayer RTS called arkaron or something that featured time travelling. The gameplay was built around building up your forces to fight at a particular point in time. As you built up you sent units back in time to battle opposing forces in waves with a limited amount of energy. The game ran on a constantly ticking timeline that implemented changes in the timeline (spawned units) at the end of each timeline section. The original idea was to be more expansive with the implementation but it had to be cut down.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#237

Post by fsiefken »

FooHentai wrote: post #3

>Cloud gaming means you will be able to take your game “everywhere” and avoid dreaded 20-minute updates before you can start playing. Doubt. In the same way that movies on PSP had this idea in mind but fell flat on it's face, games are strongly tied to the format and environment in which you consume them. FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse isn't coming with you on your phone for the morning commute, and no amount o…

I use my Oculus Go and now Quest often in the commute, a big screen with virtualdesktop and/or a gamepad works, even a bluetooth keyboard. And then there is VR gaming...

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#238

Post by ThatPlayer »

random_kris wrote: post #213
diegoperini wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. I believe (and hope) someday we will have phone cases that also act like controllers.

there is. check out razer's website. Im not sure how the product is called

There's a Razer Junglecat, but it is super limited in phone support (just like 5 popular ones). At CES, they did announce a new Razer Kishi, a wired controller that snaps on a bit like a car phone stand does.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#239

Post by friendlybus »

zubspace wrote: post #233
apazzolini wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many, many others) notice lag in games with v-sync turned on vs off, and we're talking about single digit milliseconds there. It's possible that Stadia might be "good enough" for casual gaming (and granted, that's a very large market segment), but I don't think it will ever be good enough for anyone who is sensitive to latency.

This is something which irks me. All major engines (Unity, Unreal and even Godot) provide 2 different mechanisms for callbacks in your scripts: A callback before each rendered frame and a callback before each physic step (Update() and FixedUpdate() in Unity). Now, physics always run in a fixed time step. Usually 60 times per second. If you move your player, the game will always need to wait for the next physic callba…

The controller function in unreal is separate to the physics engine. Raycasts and spawning do not need to wait for a new physics tick to do their thing.

Interp and extrapolation do not delay your input. Interp fills in lag time with predicted movement for other player characters to hide 50ms+ of lag from the player. Your client side input still exists and is updated client side in realtime. It may get corrected by lag after the fact. Your input is not delayed to match their lag.

Re: Video Gaming Will Take Over

#240

Post by SergeAx »

> Gaming is Replicating the TV Package

Not sure about this one. Most of the time TV was either free or close to free, because it was a state-sponsored political media too. Even now TV content is subscription-based; pay per view is marginal part.

Videogame subscription services are giving access to some second grade games and some bonus content and maybe discounts, but not to premium titles. In fact, most premium titles are subscription-based themselves. It is like if you have a Disney+, but have to pay extra for Mandalorian subscription.

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