Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 309 posts

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#231

Post by downerending »

djohnston wrote: post #71
notadoc wrote: post #58

Interesting. Will there be a nationwide push to hire more men to make up for all of this inequality?

There are some legitimate concerns related to having basically only women teaching young children, but the issue seems to predominantly be that men don't want to do it.

Has that been studied? A more obvious explanation is that most men don't want to sign up for a career of being regularly (if mostly tacitly) thought of as being pedophiles. It's an awful situation, but I certainly wouldn't recommend this profession for men.

If you doubt this, read some of the (fairly heartbreaking) tales of single fathers of small children. Among other things, they have great difficulty getting their friends' kids to come over for play dates, etc.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#232

Post by watwut »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #16

The more interesting thing is the distribution of income. I would happily bet that there still is a considerable gap between women on average and men on average and that the total amount taken home by that majority is significantly less than the total amount for the men.

What about marriage? If a man makes more money and he is married is HE talking more? Isn't that income split (or in reality spent by the women)? I have never understood why data on married men is treated as if the men are single and it's their money alone.

This is anecdotal, but men I know have more expensive hobbies then women. Men are more eager to buy what they want while women save money more and feel bad about unnecessary purchases.

Think gaming equipment, steam sales for games they will never play, flying, cars, tech, 3d printer and what not.

Compared to that, feminine hobbies are few bucks once in a while.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#233

Post by thewebcount »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #104
iagovar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depressed, committing suicide or just doing nothing. But apparently nobody cares.

> Depressed, committing suicide or just doing nothing. But apparently nobody cares. We've had a decade+ of men being told they're useless oppressors, who've earned nothing for themselves, whose "time is up", and that they haven't a place in the future. Couple that with the loss of shared identity in general, the breakdown of the family, the bias in the divorce process, the disappearance of purposeful work and more an…

> We've had a decade+ of men being told they're useless oppressors, who've earned nothing for themselves, whose "time is up", and that they haven't a place in the future.

That's pretty disingenuous. When they say "time's up," they aren't talking about being a man and having a job. They're talking specifically about sexually harassing women with no repercussions and disallowing women and minorities an equal place at the table.

Nobody's saying men don't have a place in the future, just that they'll have to share it with the other 50% of the population.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#234

Post by magduf »

Ohn0 wrote: post #143
magduf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem I see with this is your example of nurses. Women went into nursing in the past frequently because it was open to them, and being a doctor wasn't. That's changed, and now the only reason to be a nurse is because the educational requirements are much lower, and consequently, there's a shortage of nurses because who wants to do that instead of being a doctor and making more money, unless they don't want to s…

Unless there's lots of well-known material that I'm unaware of... there seems to be a lot of mind-reading going on here. How can you know what drives people's thinking and decision making?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S87557...

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#235

Post by magduf »

scarmig wrote: post #208
mywittyname wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men basically have the choice of either a stuffy suit that look like it hasn't changed in a century and is completely impractical, or baggy pants and a baggy hoody. I don't wear either of these on a daily basis, nor my birthday suit, and people think that I dress nice. Men have a plethora of clothing options that are stylish, comfortable, and appropriate for work situations. I'm currently wearing slacks that are de…

> Men take for granted that we all are roughly the same shape, so most of us can shop at the same stores. As a trim, broad-shouldered 5'2" guy, I had to laugh at your entire comment. I have literally never found a shirt or jacket that fits off the rack from... dozens? Hundreds? of different brands. My bet is that you fall into a conventionally masculine body shape, and you universalize your own experience to all men.

I'm 6' tall and I have trouble many times finding shirts to fit these days, because they seem to be cut for fatter men than myself (I'm rather thin). Most shirts and other tops seem to be really baggy to me.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#236

Post by deogeo »

hadesenia wrote: post #161
syshum wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all men that have chosen not to have a family are "living in their parent's basement" or have "given up" on life. I made the choice about 20 years ago to never marry, and never have children. I own my home, have an amazing career full of growth and future potential and currently am in the top 20% of wage earners. Had I made a different choice 20 years ago I likely would be married with 2 kids right now, and be ma…

Absolutely! I hope we as a society grow out of the mindset that working and having a family is the primary way one contributes to society. There must be so many people that could’ve been revolutionary creatives if they weren’t struggling to live paycheck to paycheck.

We're already there - most developed countries have negative fertility.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#237

Post by anon9001 »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #188
anon9001 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some are living in their parents basement until they're 30 to 40. I understand this is considered a bad thing, and it makes sense at a societal level, but honestly it sounds like a pretty amazing life. Maybe that would have been boring and depressing pre-internet, but it seems pretty good now. I know one dude who essentially grifted his way into the disability system, and I've watched him go from an anxious mess to…

>Maybe we need an acceptable way for people who can't mentally handle work to be able to exist in society. I initially felt on-the-fence about this but upon further thought I absolutely disagree with the idea. Society works and thrives when we've a common goal (all working to make things slightly better for everyone one bit at a time) and honest reciprocal agreements as one. I am happy to partake in a society where t…

I used to have your view about this too, but I've lost confidence in your premise that "society works and thrives when we've a common goal".

I don't think we can really know what makes society thrive, and some of the traditional measures like unemployment and productivity may not be the right ones to use.

I think the answer is in some sort of UBI, where everyone can have a base level of existence for "free", but if you want nice things, you have to work for them. It seems to me that we would hit an equilibrium where everyone who's content not working can leech a little, but people who do want to work will have much greater rewards and would be higher quality workers.

Based on the number of people that I've met who are concerned about status symbols and having the latest and greatest toys, I suspect we'd see most people actually working in a UBI scenario. We would certainly see more risk takers, which could be the best possible thing for society.

I'd like to think that I would have founded a startup by now if I didn't need an income.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#238

Post by danbolt »

ewindal wrote: post #170
danbolt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with Esther Perel's thinking[1] that the next century is going to involve a broadening on what society deems a positive life is for straight, cis men. In the same way that we consider it acceptable for women to express themselves or live differently than the gender roles of the past, I think we'll start to do the same for men. I already see this with my millennial or genZ peers. It's not uncommon to read comm…

Men are too dependent on women and work for validation for «society» to allow a broader expression of the male gender role. Those who can’t get fullfilment through their job won’t get it any easier, and I don’t see women’s tastes in men changing much.

Women’s gender roles in society has changed a lot over the past century. Do you think the same could happen to men ever?

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#239

Post by deogeo »

kypro wrote: post #47
nkkollaw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women tend to choose jobs that pay less. They're on average more interested in people, so they tend to choose to become nurses, teachers, etc., while men are interested in things and become software developers, engineers, etc. I have no idea why income HAS TO be distributed equally. Unless you want to force women to become software developers..? But why.

> I have no idea why income HAS TO be distributed equally. Unless you want to force women to become software developers..? But why. Some people don't believe that men and women are (on average) slightly different so to them any gender inequality is evidence of fowl play. They don't see it as forcing women to do things they don't want, but righting a social wrong.

> fowl play

Those damn geese.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#240

Post by throw_14JAS »

watwut wrote: post #232
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about marriage? If a man makes more money and he is married is HE talking more? Isn't that income split (or in reality spent by the women)? I have never understood why data on married men is treated as if the men are single and it's their money alone.

This is anecdotal, but men I know have more expensive hobbies then women. Men are more eager to buy what they want while women save money more and feel bad about unnecessary purchases. Think gaming equipment, steam sales for games they will never play, flying, cars, tech, 3d printer and what not. Compared to that, feminine hobbies are few bucks once in a while.

Similarly anecdotal, women spend a lot on clothes.

My actual point is this type of discussion doesn't really add anything. It's difficult to prove, and prone to an extreme amount of bias combined with generalizing from a small sample.

Post reply on HN