Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#231

Post by MiroF » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

tdcbfdct3 wrote: post #203

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

> Wikileaks has a faultless record. How about this bullshit Steve Jobs AIDS diagnosis? https://file.wikileaks.org/file/steve-jobs-hiv/steve-jobs-hi...

This is disingenuous.

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs_purported_HIV_medical_...

Wikileaks explicitly noted:

> Due to the contradictory dates, possible evidence of forgery, strong motivations for fabrication, and few motivations for a legitimate revelation, the images should not be taken at face value.

Using Wayback machine, I can confirm that this text was associated with these images from the first moment that they were published on Wikileaks.

Also, HIV isn't AIDS and you should keep that in mind.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#232

Post by MiroF » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #165

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

Today I learned that publishing numerous documents entirely it partially forged by Russian Intelligence counts as a faultless record.

Oh? What was forged?

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#233

Post by foldr » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

nicehat wrote: post #173

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The US extradition which was categorically denied for years? Ah, I see. Should we assume from the sudden change in topic that you now agree that the trial for an offense under the UK's Bail Act was, in fact, fair (or at the very least that there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary)? FYI UNGWAD is not a judicial body; its opinions (not decisions) have no binding force whatsoever.

Why on earth would I assume that one trial was fair, when the other was extraordinarily suspect? Why would I assume it's fair when he's already been tortured for years by solitary confinement, and often refused access to counsel? Not to mention, had spurious cases taken against him; and multiple, provably false, coordinated and widespread media smears in the UK and US? FYI, I never claimed anything about binding forc…

It was a public trial, so you don't have to "assume" anything about how fair it was. In any case, it would be absurd to suggest that he wasn't guilty of skipping bail, so it's difficult to see how there could have been anything significantly unfair about the trial.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#234

Post by selfishgene » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

tasty_freeze wrote: post #219

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

It is possible to build a false narrative with nothing but true information. Say I put up a website that every day posted a story about a Jewish person who had been convicted of a financial crime. Say I promoted this site and built up a fan base. If every story was 100% true, nothing but real convictions. Would you say this is an honest, faultless website?

Not unless you computed percentage of financial crimes committed by Jews as a percentage of total number of financial crimes committed in the United States.

If we saw that this number was appreciably higher than 2%, then we could immediately draw the conclusion that the justice system in this country is biased against Jews, right?

(This would be just like we do in the case of blacks when it comes to "more dangerous" crimes like assault, armed robbery, rape, and murder.)

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#235

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

benologist wrote: post #78

bbatha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden had already exfiltrated the documents by the time he coordinated with journalists to publish them. Assange allegedly instructed Manning on how to exfiltrate the documents and directed Manning’s exfiltration process. Publishing is protected by the first amendment, stealing classified documents is not and ergo conspiracy to steal documents is not.

Assange broke US laws that he was never subject to, as an Australian living in Europe.

> Assange broke US laws that he was never subject to, as an Australian living in Europe.

That's not how laws work. Laws are limited in territorial applicability only to the extent that the sovereign adopting them so limit them, and basically no government would fail to hold foreign coconspirators in a crime occuring within their domestic jurisdiction immune to prosecution (some might not have the practical means to bring such an actor to justice, and some might not choose to apply them in most cases as a matter of policy priorities, but that's a different issue.)

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#236

Post by MiroF » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

MiroF wrote: post #231

tdcbfdct3 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wikileaks has a faultless record. How about this bullshit Steve Jobs AIDS diagnosis? https://file.wikileaks.org/file/steve-jobs-hiv/steve-jobs-hi...

This is disingenuous. https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs_purported_HIV_medical_... Wikileaks explicitly noted: > Due to the contradictory dates, possible evidence of forgery, strong motivations for fabrication, and few motivations for a legitimate revelation, the images should not be taken at face value. Using Wayback machine, I can confirm that this text was associated with these images from the first moment that…

While investigating, I did find this though: https://compote.slate.com/images/6095c484-0c54-4ba2-9ac2-e87...

This is blatant antisemitism.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#237

Post by nicehat » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

multjoy wrote: post #132

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

> funny how there’s been no footage of it, despite the fact that he was under 24/7 surveillance! There wouldn’t be. It’s an embassy. The met aren’t daft enough to do anything other than watch the front door.

A Spanish company were hired to spy on Assange's meetings - going so far as to install streaming cameras in the ladies room.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/25/inenglish/1569384196_65...

> After the installation of new video cameras at the beginning of December 2017, Morales requested that his technicians install an external streaming access point in the same area so that all of the recordings could be accessed instantly by the United States. To do this, he requested three channels for access: “one for Ecuador, another for us and another for X,” according to mails sent at the time to his colleagues. When one of the technicians asked to contact “the Americans” to explain the way that they should access some of the spying systems installed in the embassy, Morales would always be evasive with his answers.

> Morales ordered his workers to install microphones in the embassy’s fire extinguishers and also in the women’s bathroom, where Assange’s lawyers, including the Spaniard Aitor Martínez and his closest collaborators, would meet for fear of being spied on.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#238

Post by dependenttypes » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

I find it kind of weird how most of the discussion is about whether assange was good/bad/a "russian spy" etc - all of these have been discussed to death already. Shouldn't we be more concerned about the inhumane treatment of assange in jail regardless if you agree or disagree with what he published?

My 2c

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#239

Post by zepto » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #190

fzeroracer wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when does no retractions mean a faultless record? That just means you stand with all of the bullshit you spew, not that you're a fully truthful source. Like when Wikileaks was perpetuating the nonsense Seth Rich conspiracy as cover.

I believe what they’re trying to say is that the context clues in the top-level comment tell us that the comment author defines “faultless record” as “no retractions”. You, me, or any other person can have a different definition of “faultless”, but that is just making conversation break down when we’re all replying to one particular definition that seemed (to me at least) clearly spelled out.

Not really - we don’t have to accept a false framing.

If they mean no retractions, they can just say no retractions.

‘Faultless record’ is a deliberate overgeneralization to make it sound like WikiLeaks is more reputable than it actually is.

Consider that Donald Trump has an equally ‘faultless record’ based on this criterion , and yet many people consider this to be sociopathic behavior,

‘No retractions’ is not a measure of journalistic quality or integrity, and certainly not an indicator of faultlessness. Indeed willingness to retract is usually considered a good thing.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#240

Post by aldoushuxley001 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #154

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

Faultless record? Absolutely not. They will support /r/conspiracy's lunacy at all costs as long as it somehow ties to Hillary Clinton. This one[1] was the most ridiculous claim they supported, but I'm sure someone who cares more could find dozens or even hundreds more claims made by WikiLeaks that are nothing more than deranged Dale Gribble-esque rants. [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-francisco-tech-assange…

Disregarding the fact that Snopes is a very disreputable organization (e.g. there's a reason Facebook fired them as fact-checkers), your reference doesn't even back up what you say. Is it possible you're the one engaging in conspiracy theories?