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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#231

Post by Terr_ »

jellicle wrote: post #134
userbinator wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed. People's ears have not changed, and the ability to reproduce sound has been nearly perfected. If you're not too picky/audiophillic, like most people, the requirements are even lower.

Literally the only "improvements" that are ever going to happen to audio in your lifetime will be a) internetifying it and b) adding more restrictions to how you use it. We've hit peak audio (best reproduction, no restrictions on usage) and it's only downhill from here. I look forward to my 2025 speakers that only work for an hour a day unless I pay for extra time credits. "Do you wish to play a) music b) music and l…

> peak audio

Nah, there are plenty of other things, like positional audio. I remember (through a pleasant haze of nostalgia) my old A3D-based sound card in the 90s as being even better than modern EAX stuff.

Potential improvement in that area can be both through simply adding speakers, and through tuning per-speaker output to forge better audio-cues. (To wit, Head Related Transfer Functions applied to headphones, possibly even with custom parameters for different peoples' heads.)

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#232

Post by nialv7 »

whoisjuan wrote: post #219
song wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People understand the purpose of it quite well. They just completely disagree with your analysis. First, the most environmental form of recycling is for an object to be reused as is. So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. Second, the credit doesn't encourage people to recycle them at all instead o…

> So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. I think OP's analysis did cover that. You don't have to put it in the recycle mode. You can sell it yourself or choose not to get the credit so someone else can "Recycle" it by reusing it. I do agree with you that people could still put in the trash, but I…

If they really want to encourage reuse of their devices, why would they incentivize the users to turn their devices into unusable trash by giving them credits for doing that?

> but I also think that's where good recycling programs matter.

However good your recycling program is, it is still going to be _strictly more_ wasteful than simply reusing the device.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#233

Post by haimez »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #52

About 8(?) years ago my wife tasked me to get a whole-house audio system that was simple to use. After reading a lot, sonos was the clear choice, though pricey. We started with two play:3's, then added a play:5 and two more play:3's. And things were good. But for the past year the system has been a mess. Music stutters, some units can't be found, some units fail to upgrade through multiple retries/reboots. I've waste…

Honestly, sounds like you need a better wireless router or need to add a (few) repeater(s).

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#234

Post by Doji »

davidjhall wrote: post #181
throwaway100773 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in the market for sound equipment. I just crossed these guys off my list.

I'm curious what you would recommend instead. Everyone is listing speakers they bought decades ago but what are the latest non-sonos speakers that people like?

Don't buy smart speakers. Just buy regular speakers. Then you can plug them into whatever you like, run whatever software you like (e.g. pi musicbox) etc. So you actually own them, and they should serve you well for many years, for whatever you may need.

Also don't buy soundbars. Speakers don't want to be long and skinny. You'll end up paying a lot more for a lot less sound.

Also consumer grade speakers are often more expensive for crappier sound. Look into professional models, like studio monitors. For example, JBL 305PMKII. You may be able to find a local store where you can listen to studio monitors before purchasing.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#235

Post by ryandrake »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #132
secabeen wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they want to stream audio from streaming services, which have APIs that change regularly, and require some level of DRM and subscription management. If you just want to stream audio from a local server, buy a squeezebox device. (They went under a few years back, the demand wasn't there, but they did have exactly the setup you want)

> stream audio from streaming services, which have APIs that change regularly, and require some level of DRM and subscription management That's a good point and it makes it even more important to push back - abusive, customer-hostile business models don't just affect the direct customers, they spread and infect everything downstream.

Sonos is a particularly horrible company though, with software particularly hostile to end-users. There are many cases where they actively prevent you from using the device that you bought.

When a software update becomes available, you can no longer use the Sonos app or connect to a Sonos device, making the device essentially unusable, until you update your software.

When Sonos, for example, changes their Terms of Service to be even more draconian, you must accept the terms or the device ceases to function [1].

They require ridiculous access to personal information like location [2].

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15071120

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21771491

Everything this terrible company does shows that they consider themselves the true owners of the devices they manufacture even after you purchase them. I will never buy another product from them.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#236

Post by Godel_unicode »

robocat wrote: post #228
crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

In other words "recycle" mode isn't recycling (you can just chuck them in the trash) and it isn't reusing. A complete deception to sound green, with zero cost to Sonos with zero attempt to be green, and just causing a waste stream. Nice one Sonos.

Sonos will pay for you to ship your recycled speaker back to them to be recycled. Not only do they pay for this shipping and recycle the speaker, but they give you a 30% credit. Hardly zero cost to Sonos, and considering the thriving market for refurbished speakers from Sonos it seems pretty clear the old speakers are being reused. Overall, sounds like they're doing exactly what they say they are.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#237

Post by cmclaughlin »

davidjhall wrote: post #181
throwaway100773 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in the market for sound equipment. I just crossed these guys off my list.

I'm curious what you would recommend instead. Everyone is listing speakers they bought decades ago but what are the latest non-sonos speakers that people like?

Google Play devices offer the same functionality at a fraction of the cost.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#238

Post by Godel_unicode »

reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

They are literally doing exactly that. You can take your old speaker into a Sonos store or ship it (on Sonos dime) back to them. They then refurbish and resell, and you get a discount.

This story is at best lazy reporting with many facts left out or unresearched.

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/certified-refurbished

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/tradeup

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#239

Post by mark-r »

Doji wrote: post #234
davidjhall wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you would recommend instead. Everyone is listing speakers they bought decades ago but what are the latest non-sonos speakers that people like?

Don't buy smart speakers. Just buy regular speakers. Then you can plug them into whatever you like, run whatever software you like (e.g. pi musicbox) etc. So you actually own them, and they should serve you well for many years, for whatever you may need. Also don't buy soundbars. Speakers don't want to be long and skinny. You'll end up paying a lot more for a lot less sound. Also consumer grade speakers are often mor…

I've found Guitar Center to be a good place to check out and buy monitor speakers and headphones.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#240

Post by mongol »

karlding wrote: post #156
emmelaich wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! I have a 1999 Sony amp and some older (1980s) Wharfedale speakers. Nothing I've bought in the last 25 years sounds remotely as good as them. And plugging in a Chromecast audio has given it immortality.

What's the current best alternative to a Chromecast Audio, now that they're discontinued and no longer as readily available? My current living room setup is a Chromecast Audio connected to an AVR via the optical out connection, which powers my speakers, but I'm curious if there's any alternatives. The eBay sellers are really starting to price-gouge, and I'm not naive enough to believe that my Chromecast Audio will la…

I have replaced my Chromecast Audio with Raspberry Pi with a Snapcast client. On the Snapcast server side I run a DLNA renderer ("gmrender resurrect"). This allows me to cast audio synchronously to multiple speakers using the Android app Bubble UPNP. Basically, instead of clicking the cast button in an app, I select share, then Bubble UPNP. One advantage to this is that I can "cast" Youtube and get the audio, which Chromecast audio does not support.

Btw, Snapcast works great.

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