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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#231

Post by buboard »

pwthornton wrote: post #224
buboard wrote: post #220

Why then don't one of the parents choose to stay at home or work at home (excluding single parents of course)? Either childcare is not a big expense , or there's some kind of societal taboo against raising your own kids at home? Is this part of the bigger bubble that makes raising kids so effortful and costly in time, that people just end up not having them?

This logic could be applied to k-12 education, which would be rather expensive if not government-subsidized. Pre-school in particular benefits both the children who receive it and the parents who are able to work. A lack of affordable childcare disproportionally falls on women as well, which is something worth tackling. The other issue not even mentioned here is that childcare and pre-school are expensive but they do…

> This logic could be applied to k-12 education, which would be rather expensive if not government-subsidized.

No, because most parents aren't good at teach their kids basic knowledge.

> Pre-school in particular benefits both the children?

Disagree, it's a virus-fest and a herdish, artificial beginning in life. People who are lucky enough to grow their kids in rural/family/small town settings have it much better.

> A lack of affordable childcare disproportionally falls on women

agreed, but that can easily be worked on

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#232

Post by blaser-waffle »

astrodust wrote: post #159
epanchin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think inflation has been a significant outcome of this program?

Quebec hasn't become measurably more expensive than other Canadian cities in the last 25 years and is way more affordable than a comparable city like Toronto.

This is true, but keep in mind that in QC the salaries are lower, and there is a high demand for workers.

A big part of this is because the workers have to be Francophone, and often bilingual (esp. in Montreal).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#233

Post by cjmcqueen »

pfortuny wrote: post #57
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

Completely agree. Raising a family is work and it does add to the greater good of the world. And, it's not being measured properly, which leads oeople to assume that dual income is the "right goal" when it's an intrinsic bias to the situation.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#234

Post by josephpmay »

meerita wrote: post #200

What is increasing the childcare so much? Other countries with less resources than 1st world countries have inmense amount of childs and I don't understand why everything became so expensive.

In most countries, people generally live with or near their extended families, and grandparents/aunts/cousins watch over the children if the mother works. This is much less common in America.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#235

Post by throwaway_tech »

jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

>... the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home.

In the US both the left and right play a game where the only way to increase tax revenue is tax cuts to the rich. It has never worked...but politicians be damned if they will ever try anything other than trickle down economics.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#236

Post by unicornporn »

jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

> It doesn't have to be this way.

No it doesn't. Rates for Stockholm, Sweden (PDF): https://forskola.stockholm/globalassets/forskola-och-skola/f...

In short:

FULL-TIME RATES

Full-time rates apply to children in the ages of 1-3, who are in childcare for more than 30 hours a week.

Child 1: 3% of household income up to maximum a fee of 1425 kr/month (roughly 149 USD)

Child 2: 2% of household income up to maximum a fee of 950 kr/month (roughly 99 USD)

Child 3: 1% of household income up to maximum a fee of 475 kr/month (roughly 50 USD)

PART-TIME RATES

Child 1: 2% of household income up to maximum a fee of 950 kr/month

Child 2: 1% of household income up to maximum a fee of 475 kr/month

Child 3: 1% of household income up to maximum a fee of 475 kr/month

Every family receives child allowance[1]. Child allowance for one child is 1250 kr/month for one child. Two children: 2650 kr/month. Three chidren: 4480 kr/month.

[1] https://www.forsakringskassan.se/privatpers/foralder/nar_bar...

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#237

Post by em500 »

klipt wrote: post #197
darawk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of the "childcare is not part of the workforce" argument. It's not that it isn't work, and it's not that it isn't important. It's that, in many cases, the economic comparative advantage for the (often) female caretaker of those children is not being fully utilized. That is to say, caring for a child is a service that costs X. But it is being performed by a person who's skills are valu…

Why is subsidized daycare necessary in these cases though? In America if daycare costs X and you earn Y much greater than X, then obviously you'll make more money going to work and sending your kid to daycare than being a stay at home parent. The people who choose to stay at home often either have multiple kids (higher X) or earn little enough (lower Y) that it's not an economic advantage for them to work. But those…

Because your while your gross Y is greater than X, your net Y might be well below (especially when you have 2 or more kids).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#238

Post by cjmcqueen »

orev wrote: post #176
pfortuny wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

I think you’re being overly picky and cherry-picking your argument here. I don’t know anyone who thinks that child rearing is not hard work, and all agree that it is valuable. But in the context of this discussion, “productivity” is an economic term for the production of goods or services, and the generation of income for the workers. Child rearing does neither of those things directly , so as an economic activity, i…

Child rearing produces children that are adults and had the attention of a fully invested parent. Are you sure you're measuring the right thing?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#239

Post by aidenn0 »

klipt wrote: post #197
darawk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of the "childcare is not part of the workforce" argument. It's not that it isn't work, and it's not that it isn't important. It's that, in many cases, the economic comparative advantage for the (often) female caretaker of those children is not being fully utilized. That is to say, caring for a child is a service that costs X. But it is being performed by a person who's skills are valu…

Why is subsidized daycare necessary in these cases though? In America if daycare costs X and you earn Y much greater than X, then obviously you'll make more money going to work and sending your kid to daycare than being a stay at home parent. The people who choose to stay at home often either have multiple kids (higher X) or earn little enough (lower Y) that it's not an economic advantage for them to work. But those…

Subsidized care is needed because of taxes:

Y = Annual pay on open market

X = Cost of childcare

Y' = Takehome pay after taxes

Y' < X < Y is an inefficient utilization of resources that subsidized daycare can fix (since the subsidies come out of Y-Y', it can be revenue neutral or even revenue positive for the government).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#240

Post by mrlala »

nine_zeros wrote: post #226

How about going to Asian style societies where the caregivers are grandparents or older people? Most people close to retirement (or already retired) don't need as much money since medicare already takes care of them.

That would be great be apparently current older generations have been brainwashed into thinking that your entire goal for your life is to save for a lavish retirement where you will finally get to enjoy yourself every day after you retire and should have no responsibilities. Which basically equates to- don't enjoy any day until you retire because you are so busy focused on retirement.

My parents are like that.. my mom even moved to live close to one of my siblings and the grandchildren.. but complains every single time she has to watch them because it takes up her valuable retired time... ok.

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