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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#231

Post by callalex »

natch wrote: post #142
tcmb wrote: post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

We have two and live in an apartment. The problem is not that insurmountable when there are chargers at work and Superchargers. At work, they are expanding the number of chargers year after year. Same with Superchargers. I am always able to charge well beyond my commute miles at work, for free. I'm not saying it's a non-issue, but it is possible for a lot of people, and it is getting better, even for people who curre…

What happens when you fall ill for a week and don’t go to work? Do you trade cars with your partner for alternate day charging?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#232

Post by mymythisisthis »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #145

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

Also they might last longer than a badly built ICE car, so over time the ratio will become even more skewed towards electric cars.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#233

Post by erikpukinskis »

callalex wrote: post #228
toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

That’s the average but what’s the median? The long tail on new car prices crosses multiple orders of magnitude.

Looks like for light vehicles it’s bimodal, with peaks at both $28k and $40k: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fact-989-augus...

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#234

Post by jjav »

cj wrote: post #159
xyzzyz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s no surprise, since Norwegian government heavily penalizes ICE vehicles, and advantages the electric cars. No VAT, no CO2 tax, and lots of other incentives are involved. If your goal is to upgrade your country’s vehicle fleet to electric, then Norway is a good example that with enough government spending it can happen. Don’t mistake it for “normal people jumping onboard electric train”, though, they are jumping…

Also, price of gas is 2.5x higher in Norway than somewhere like the USA. If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. In areas with higher fuel prices, the incentive is proportionally larger. (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)

> (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)

If we ignore the cost of gas, it'll also change the math...

Needless to say, need to include all costs for a fair comparison. A few years ago when my wife had a Fiat 500e and I was commuting on a 1988 Honda CRX (~40 mpg). The energy cost was higher for the Fiat than the Honda at the time. (Electricity is very expensive in CA). Gas has gone up lately (but then, so has PG&E), I haven't run the numbers in recent years. Might be a wash now.

Gas an electricity prices vary widely so do the math for your area, but don't ignore any costs.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#235

Post by erikpukinskis »

Faark wrote: post #108
ralusek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't running an internal combustion engine in a car still substantially less efficient than the power plant necessary to charge it, regardless of the fuel?

Not just that, ICE cars emit their shitty exhaust right where lots of people live. Things are generally more complex than breaking it down to a single CO2 number make it appear, and I'm a bit uneasy that recent trend.

Also very dangerous particles go airborne from the use of brake pads. EVs (and hybrids) use mostly regenerative braking, and release almost no such pollution.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#236

Post by ryanSrich »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
ryanSrich wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, price also holds people back. An entry level Tesla with autopilot is still north of $40k after taxes (even with the break).

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

Different strokes I guess.

For me it’s the utility factor. I can get a well equipped, 4 door Tacoma for $32k. That’s a hell of a lot more useful to me than a $40k Tesla. Perhaps if Tesla had a small sized pickup for less than $45k I’d give it a look, but their lower-end options just aren’t that attractive.

When you’re looking at a vehicle that’s the size of a civic, that isn’t a fun sports car, I just don’t see how the average American can justify it. I’m not exactly sure who Tesla Model 3 is supposed to be competing with. It’s not cheap enough to compete with Honda, Toyota, etc. and it’s not expensive enough to compete with luxury brands like Mercedes, Lexus, etc.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#237

Post by [deleted] »

ryanSrich wrote: post #236
toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

Different strokes I guess. For me it’s the utility factor. I can get a well equipped, 4 door Tacoma for $32k. That’s a hell of a lot more useful to me than a $40k Tesla. Perhaps if Tesla had a small sized pickup for less than $45k I’d give it a look, but their lower-end options just aren’t that attractive. When you’re looking at a vehicle that’s the size of a civic, that isn’t a fun sports car, I just don’t see how t…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#238

Post by toomuchtodo »

ryanSrich wrote: post #236
toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

Different strokes I guess. For me it’s the utility factor. I can get a well equipped, 4 door Tacoma for $32k. That’s a hell of a lot more useful to me than a $40k Tesla. Perhaps if Tesla had a small sized pickup for less than $45k I’d give it a look, but their lower-end options just aren’t that attractive. When you’re looking at a vehicle that’s the size of a civic, that isn’t a fun sports car, I just don’t see how t…

Most Americans don't need a pickup truck (I know, the horror of such a statement). If you value the added utility, different strokes. Tesla is pulling sales from entry level models produced by luxury manufacturers, but also pulling sales from people who would've traditionally paid less for a non luxury vehicle. My brother badly wanted a 4Runner until I let him borrow my Model S for a week. He then decided he couldn't live with anything other than a Model 3 or S.

I expect Tesla sales to increase further with the introduction of the Y crossover built on the 3 platform.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#239

Post by freehunter »

lettergram wrote: post #220
cj wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, price of gas is 2.5x higher in Norway than somewhere like the USA. If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. In areas with higher fuel prices, the incentive is proportionally larger. (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)

Apparently average price per gallon in Norway is $7.06[1]. Today, I paid $2.42 for gas in rural Illinois. So 3x, but I also pay less for electricity in general, so idk if it pays off. I probably spend around $1500/year on gas with my 17-25mpg Jeep. Honestly, Tesla really still can’t compete with the fact I have to haul stuff and drive a few hundred miles. so not an option for me anyway. [1] https://www.globalpetrolpr…

It's amazing to me as an American how little need Europeans have for large American-style vehicles. I see Audi station wagons in Switzerland pulling horse trailers (with horses in them), doing 100mph on the freeway. In the US, anyone who pulls a horse trailer once a year would have a dualie diesel HD3500 with exhaust stacks, as their daily driver.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#240

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jfk13 wrote: post #208
npo9 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what price you pay for Electricity, but paying for the electricity is more than half as cheap as paying for gas. Plus in the US there are so many free chargers, I just charge my car at the office.

I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of…

One counterbalancing force is renewables and using cars as part of demand response.

If solar energy that would otherwise go to waste can be stored in cars, then that reduces the chance the car will need charged at another time and save the utility money.

I can imagine plugs that you connect to for free when parked, that only give you as much power as they want but that will also let you buy express power when absolutely required via an app.

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