Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#231

Post by pg_is_a_butt » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:50 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #199

leftyted wrote: post #147

I never much liked Richard Stallman. But he's a freethinker, and freethinkers necessarily exist outside the mainstream. So, despite not liking him, I also don't like this turn of events. It does seem arbitrary to me that the same sexual encounter is classified as rape in Arizona and not rape in Virginia. I suppose we have to draw that line somewhere arbitrary. But I wonder if it was a mistake to classify what is call…

He can continue to be a freethinker all his life, which is his right. What isn't though, is having unconditional support from two powerful industry organizations. They can choose their own values, same as him.

If only he could convince the president of one of the organizations to protect him...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#232

Post by flukus » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

dlp211 wrote: post #146

robocat wrote: post #120

Why does this feel like such a witch hunt? It is clear RMS was stunningly clueless to write anything about this, but surely we all know of similar engineers that would make a similar error? If everyone were held up to the same moral standard, we wouldn't have many people left in power! Just to be clear: I'm definitely not supporting hurting children (directly or indirectly) - I hope I'm not falling into the same tar…

Because RMS isn't just another socially awkward engineer. He is a leader and a part of a larger community and is therefore held to a higher standard. The reason for the higher standard is simple, leaders are entrusted with power and need to wield that power better than others. RMS has failed that test today.

> He is a leader and a part of a larger community and is therefore held to a higher standard

A leader doesn't just keep their head down and stick to whatever the prevailing zeitgeist is, that's what followers do.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#233

Post by ezoe » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #223

ezoe wrote: post #128

RMS's definition of pedophile doesn't include people who feel sexuall attraction on person who has puberty and is sexual maturity. I think that's a fair definition. He also argues that 17 years old has ability to consent. Since I'm from a country of consent age of 13 years, I agree. RMS don't encourage to violate the law, merely presenting the opinion. This opinion isn't blaming certain group like James Watson and hi…

What's being lost in the conversation is that the child in the the story was trafficked for sex. We are not talking just about sex with a 17 year old.

So RMS called Epstein "serial rapist". He declined to call him "Pedophile" and that cause this outrage.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#234

Post by ezoe » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

nikdaheratik wrote: post #188

ezoe wrote: post #128

RMS's definition of pedophile doesn't include people who feel sexuall attraction on person who has puberty and is sexual maturity. I think that's a fair definition. He also argues that 17 years old has ability to consent. Since I'm from a country of consent age of 13 years, I agree. RMS don't encourage to violate the law, merely presenting the opinion. This opinion isn't blaming certain group like James Watson and hi…

Except your opinion is as an anonymous person on the Internet, while his was the director of the FSF and a trusted member of an academic community in a public forum. He has to be willing to think about the people and organisations he represents before he opens his mouth and makes them look bad. If he isn't willing to do that, then he should get sacked.

Now he no longer belong to MIT/FSF, he can enjoy his freedom of speech I guess. RMS is and always is consistent. He never bend his opinion and he throw out all the career if necessary for his freedom.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#235

Post by topmonk » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #13

C-x C-c. Thank you for bringing the FSF into the world, Richard. Whatever comes out of this and whatever comes next, your philosophy on software freedom has influenced us in innumerable ways.

"C-x C-c" should become a new rallying cry for valuing technological ability over political beliefs.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#236

Post by solotronics » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

When will someone make a Licensing Agreement that strictly excludes the thought police. It's seriously ridiculous that anyone thinks it is important to criticize with a microscope every single thing someone says, some people think out loud it's called discourse. There are quotes from antiquity that it is the mark of someone truly wise who can seriously consider an idea and either accept it or reject it based on its merit, the point being if you can't even bring up something as a topic of conversation that is mentally handicapping yourself.

People will seriously have to reconsider these arbitrary rules when every single word we all say is recorded from birth. That day is not far away.

How Orwellian the situation we have built for ourselves.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#237

Post by dheera » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #147

I never much liked Richard Stallman. But he's a freethinker, and freethinkers necessarily exist outside the mainstream. So, despite not liking him, I also don't like this turn of events. It does seem arbitrary to me that the same sexual encounter is classified as rape in Arizona and not rape in Virginia. I suppose we have to draw that line somewhere arbitrary. But I wonder if it was a mistake to classify what is call…

RMS also resigned from CSAIL just now: https://www.thedailybeast.com/richard-stallman-famed-mit-com...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#238

Post by stevenjohns » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

throwaway180094 wrote: post #204

Nearly the entire world considers 17 legal [1], including most of the United States. To deny there is a room for a conversation about age of consent being arbitrary seems… really strange. [1]: https://philippineslifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/te3FQnP-...

The entire thing is odd. RMS is questioning the morality of the law and the people opposing him are quite literally, unironically, upset because they use the law to derive their morality[0]. More than that, their criticism is based on an intentional clickbait-tier misreading of what Stallman was saying. And after learning this, people are like "oh well, screw him anyway, he's a weirdo." This includes people like Neil McGovern, GNOME Executive Director, who used the opportunity to threaten that RMS leaves or GNOME leaves the FSF.

Living in a country where the age of consent is 16, the oddest thing I find in all of this is that people can hold a straight face while saying that sleeping with a 17 year old constitutes pedophilia but seem to completely ignore that their country tries 13 year olds as adults[1] when they deem it fitting.

[0] https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...

[1] https://oklahoman.com/article/5580060/13-year-old-boy-charge...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#239

Post by mkeedlinger » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:57 AM UTC

There are so many judgements on both sides, both in these comments and in the articles on the subject that have been submitted, but very little quoting of what he said in context.

Where can I find what he said? Why is everyone talking about what he meant without quoting what he said so I can decide what makes sense for myself?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#240

Post by lizzard » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

hristov wrote: post #47

I think it is unfair to hound him over his latest statement about sexual assault. He is absolutely right that the term sexual assault includes actions that are so different that it can be used to unfairly destroy people's reputation. And if you are going to call someone a monster, it is better to more precisely define what type of sexual assault he did. I myself was sexually assaulted some time ago. I was in an ordin…

Wild that you would conflate a slap on the ass in a nightclub with an underage girl in basically sex slavery being pimped to a 70 year old. And then going to court over it despite all the danger and pain that exposed her to. Do you think those might be very different things?!