Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

amazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 459 posts

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#231

Post by GordonS »

apexalpha wrote: post #53

I can't speak for the US but this man has shifted so much of the political debate in my country and I think also in the EU in general. If you talked about the massive surveillance from governments people tossed you aside as a paranoid lunatic. After Snowden no one could ignore you anymore and privacy is an aspect in any public debate.

Can I ask what country this is in?

Here in the UK, nothing had changed, and any debate that wasn't centred around condemning Snowden and justifying the actions of the security services, was very short lived.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#232

Post by dahdum »

kerkeslager wrote: post #128
dx87 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, saying that the NSA has done maybe one useful thing in its entire existence and that everything it does could be replaced by "simple detective work" just shows you to be incredibly uninformed and ignorant about what the job of the NSA actually is.

So inform us. Present evidence for your opinion or keep your opinion to yourself.

Here's a decent article highlighting 4 attacks of the 50 they claim to have foiled since 2001. https://www.ibtimes.com/four-times-nsa-surveillance-programs...

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#233

Post by solidasparagus »

kerkeslager wrote: post #128
dx87 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, saying that the NSA has done maybe one useful thing in its entire existence and that everything it does could be replaced by "simple detective work" just shows you to be incredibly uninformed and ignorant about what the job of the NSA actually is.

So inform us. Present evidence for your opinion or keep your opinion to yourself.

He didn't give any less evidence than OP.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#234

Post by chiefalchemist »

rosser wrote: post #173
chiefalchemist wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Never post any facts about the BHO admin on HN or you'll be down-voted. It's amazing how many people have been sucked into the smooth and confident talk (and the complete lack then of media fueled outrage). Too many people's confirmation bais forces them to forget that actions speak louder than words. If DJT did even half of the questionable things BHO did there would be blood in the streets. Point that out? Do…

To be clear, I downvoted both your and your parent's comments, not for saying disparaging things about Obama, his record, his hawkishness (many of which criticisms I quite eagree with), or anything otherwise negative about him , but rather for saying that HN is a place where that stuff is wrongthink. Disagreement isn't persecution.

> "...disparaging things about Obama..."

When we start using the word disparaging to describe facts and truth we are ALL in a lot of trouble. So as well-meaning as you believe you might have been with your downvote, you wording has only confirmed the general problem / bias.

Irony that just pointing these things out will get more DVs is Chapelle-funny.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#235

Post by make3 »

empath75 wrote: post #138

I think the administration badly, badly mishandled Snowden and Assange, and allowed Russia to coopt them by isolating and threatening them. If they had treated them as whistleblowers and journalists (even if they had nefarious motivations), they could have kept them in "the west" instead of driving them into the arms of Russia. I don't believe that Assange was a Russian agent at the beginning but he was surely one by…

I believe he is a hero and did the right thing, but I think there is no way the US could do anything but try to put in prison someone who illegally made state secrets public. That would have set the precedent that anyone with secret bad looking intelligence about the US would be safe to come out with it. Turns out I'm sure that there is a lot of intelligence that looks quite bad for the US.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#236

Post by goobynight »

bsimpson wrote: post #201
stjohnswarts wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it would have been an opportunity for Obama to shine but alas he didn't. Just the mediocre, status quo President that we elected. In retrospect, I'll take him any time over our current Mango Mussolini.

People spend so much time patting themselves on the back for electing the First Black President - who was witty, looked leader-ly on TV, and wore a (D) behind his name - that they totally let him off the hook for so many abhorrent policies, like mass surveillance, drone assassinations, and the way he mistreated the biggest whistleblower of our time. It's so disappointing how few people seem to have complex thoughts a…

Obama is the equivalent of a SWE candidate that only studies Leetcode and interviewing tactics.

People thought everything else (e.g. the substance of the job) would be on the level of his oratory skills, but it turned out he was just some guy that knew how to get votes.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#237

Post by cynwoody »

packet_nerd wrote: post #54
apercu wrote: post #12

US expatriates are the only expats in the world that have to file annual taxes (and report foreign bank accounts). It's ridiculous for most of us (99% are not tax exiles or tax evaders, we just left the USA for our own reasons). I wonder if Snowden files taxes?

Don't even get me started.... In many countries it's hard or near impossible for US citizens to get bank accounts and other financial services, I guess due to them not wanting to deal with reporting requirements? Europeans, Aussies, and pretty much everyone have it way easier. Makes me so mad.

A few years ago, the IRS came after Boris Johnson, then the mayor of London, now the PM, for taxes on the gain from the sale of his house in London. He was born in NYC, you see, making him an American citizen. He ended up paying the tax and renouncing his US citizenship.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/02/15/savvy-lon...

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#238

Post by fouric »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #192
wannabcodr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you examine what Ed Snowden leaked, it’s clear he was trying to do significant damage to the NSA. Much or most of what he stole and was leaked was unrelated to domestic surveillance. Much of it revealed our overseas activity. It’s difficult to see how any of it was to the benefit of Western interests.

He wasn't "just trying to damage the NSA", he was trying to get the truth out about surveillance, the fact that the NSA was damaged was tangential and they shouldn't have been spying on US citizens. The NSA and other gov police entities were basically breaking half the dictates and the entire spirit of the US Constitution.

Your words do nothing to counter the argument of the comment you were replying to. The fact that the vast majority of the documents leaked were completely unrelated to domestic surveillance is as strong an indicator as we can get that he was specifically trying to damage the NSA, and any claims otherwise are PR.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#240

Post by GuB-42 »

empath75 wrote: post #138

I think the administration badly, badly mishandled Snowden and Assange, and allowed Russia to coopt them by isolating and threatening them. If they had treated them as whistleblowers and journalists (even if they had nefarious motivations), they could have kept them in "the west" instead of driving them into the arms of Russia. I don't believe that Assange was a Russian agent at the beginning but he was surely one by…

I think the administration screwed up massively in more ways than one.

- They conducted illegal, and most likely ineffective surveillance. I mean, if they have as huge watchlists as it is claimed, they can't reasonably watch very closely.

- A subcontractor named Snowden, managed to leak a lot of secret stuff. And while it is the most memorable instance, it is not the first serious leak.

- They failed at damage control. The couldn't cover up, discredit, etc... While there is a debate on whether Snowden is a hero or a traitor, no one seem to question the truth of the leaks themselves.

- They couldn't catch Snowden, or found a way to get him to come back home. He is now with the Russians.

Being a believer in the Hanlon's razor, my hypothesis is that the NSA has become a bloated administration. Focused more on their budget and jobs than national security. Massive surveillance is just a way to keep them busy. Snowden's leaks and their aftermath actually tell two things: the extent of surveillance, and incompetence.

Post reply on HN