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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#231

I think they just overestimated the ability of their employees to respect each other when they hold differing world views. That's kinda natural once you reach a certain size and your colleagues may as well be randos on the street. To be fair, that's a learning most businesses stumbled upon decades ago, it's the new generation of "re-invent management" companies that are speedrunning HR policy.

I am not sure how well this generalises but, in my experience, it is very possible to achieve this IF you have a business/culture that is motivated.

An example of this working is in investment management. The job is largely about groups of people arguing with each other. Often this comes down to differences in "world view".

Some places get around this by just hiring people with the same "world view". But other places take the more robust approach of hiring different people and encouraging more argument. I am not sure if this works because they just don't hire very dogmatic people (a group that is very over-represented in tech) but it can/does work (and does scale up to thousands of employees).

Definitely, large groups that have members across society ban these discussions (the Masons is one example). If you are hiring/recruiting anyone, then no politics is smart. But this isn't the case here. It is possible...if you are motivated. From what I have seen, the Googler approach is to be actively unmotivated.

It is easier to think everyone else is dumb and you are smart than acknowledge you are wrong or don't know. Investment management is unusual, the feedback loop is clear. You are as smart as your last trade. That promotes a robust self-image. I can see why the average Googler doesn't have these traits. They seem to be in the job description (i.e. a lot of people want to work at Google because that will mean they are smart). You reap what you sow.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#233
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolerance isn't considered a virtue because it's easy. Tolerance is a virtue because it's difficult . It requires us to put up with people who may adhere to worldviews we find utterly alien or hold views we find abhorrent. It's easy to come up with an example and find yourself thinking "It's unreasonable to tolerate that!". Instead, consider asking yourself why people a century ago might tolerate views you think of a…

Tolerance for tolerance's sake isn't useful though. The hypothetical Nazi / Hitler example shows up: if Hitler existed today, are we supposed to tolerate his views? Tolerance breaks down because morality kicks in: a good moral person tries to wipe out evil when they see evil. The problem is that we can't agree on what is, and isn't evil. Which is a problem when people increasingly believe the "other side" to be evil.…

> are we supposed to tolerate his views?

His views are his own. He should be free to express them.

What we wouldn’t have to tolerate was his actions, because they clearly harmed others.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#234

It's funny how we pigeonhole "things that actually matter" as "politics" and that those things are somehow taboo. I mean, what's MORE worth talking about than human rights, the environment, history, etc.?

I think they just got sick of having their employees telling them what businesses they couldn't engage in.

They may have had to make the restrictions overly broad to avoid tripping over some labor organization laws.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to start. Google's culture was predicated on hiring intelligent, emotionally-continent adults. Free discussion of politics wasn't banned during my time there because everyone was capable of understanding precisely the opposite of what you're describing: that differing views on the world exist and are attributable to more than just whether someone is a good or…

I've worked for a lot of small startups some mid-sized companies in California over the last decade. I would never ever share any views that are non-liberal because when I've seen anyone else do it it didn't go well for them at all. And I'm not at work to change people's political views so there's no reason to take the risk. I don't think this is a new shift at all. I think it's typical when you have smart but insecu…

"Over the last decade" is a critical qualification, I think. This phenomenon emerged in the early 2010s, by my best reckoning.

This sounds an awful lot like nostalgic pining for the good old days, but there was a time not too long ago that daring to hold an opinion that others around you disagreed with wasn't an existential threat to your career. Things shifted really hard, really fast.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#236
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances he has only been tracking donations made to right-wing groups? :') Edit: very high, it seems https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Apinboard%20PAC

@Pinboard's politics are... not secret.

The politics of $RICH_GUY_WHO_WORKS_AT_TECH_IN_THE_WEST_COAST are not secret, I was just laughing at the prospect of a seemingly neutral "project" which is just a way of denouncing companies that use their advertisement power to show how leftist they are (because in this day and age they have no other choice) while, at the same time, they give money to those eeeevil conservatives.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#237
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they overestimated just how willing certain people are to not do their jobs and sit around arguing while being paid.

If timewasting was the problem, wouldn't they be clamping down on all unproductive conversation, not merely the political? I mean, wasting 10 minutes is wasting 10 minutes, whether I'm talking about politics or football or TV.

Scrolling through HN while your code compiles != full on political debates at work.

I’m on a group chat with a couple old friends and when someone starts a debate on a topic I’m passionate about we go hard and we go deep. Suddenly it’s two hour later and here I am trying to do some quick demography with raw data from the census bureau to prove a point.

I’ve started blocking the chat until after work because debates do tend to rage sometimes. And we’re old friends with a grounding empathy and shared experiences to fall back on. Doing the same thing with coworkers during work hours? I would’ve banned it too.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#238
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they have work to do. That's why they're there.

Exactly. If I'm working on a team that is rolling out a new Google drive feature, I really don't need to hear you talk about why drinking straws are a phallic symbol and used by the patriarchy to keep woman down. We have work to do.

Everyone here is talking about what _should_ happen.

Yes, the workplace _should_ be serene and work _should_ proceed in harmony.

But there are other things that aren't proceeding the way people think _should_ be happening, which they deem to be far more important.

Which is why you're seeing more people willing to disrupt the workplace, which they consider a minor obligation relative to the bigger picture.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#239
post #141
post #92

Ever since the infamous "diversity memo," (which I disagree with,) I've gotten the impression that political discussions at Google turned toxic. A well run company includes people with diverse political views points. A workplace that's hostile to anyone who leans right or leans left ultimately hurts diversity.

Most of the memo was citations of studies of sex differences. People can either agree with the studies or disagree with the research used (it's totally cool with me if you do disagree with the research), but the idea that someone should be punished for talking about research at a company that extols "data driven decision making" as one of it's principles baffles me.

The memo made some very poignant points, but then the author expressed some strange opinions that I would never attempt to defend.

(Even worse, there was no reason to put some of these opinions in the memo.)

But what's more scary is Google's official response to the diversity memo. (For context, Google instituted certain hiring policies to increase diversity, which the "diversity memo" questioned.)

If you have the time, I suggest that you go reread the diversity memo and Google's response. Try to read them without taking sides. (It's hard.)

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#240

>I think they just overestimated the ability of their employees to respect each other when they hold differing world views. I think this can be quite difficult to do just because of the political views involved. For example, how should a gay man respect a colleague who honestly thinks that homosexuality should be punished with death. In such a case, I would say that even asking the first individual to tolerate, much…

I've seen people at work defend trans hate as a "conservative value". It's fine if people have different opinions on taxes but to reject people's identity like that, especially one held by some of their colleagues, should cross a line and they shouldn't be able to hide behind "conservative values".

Did they call it trans hate? Or did they object to unisex restrooms and/or pronoun usage rules?

I usually see “hate” used very loosely here, when the reality is much more nuanced, and mischaracterizing it as trans hate (or hate in general, for whatever the issue might be) is contributing to the problem.

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