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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#231

Post by zaarn »

zackmorris wrote: post #130
landonxjames wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and a…

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

GMOs don't really contain any unnatural substances unless they've been deliberately put in, to my knowledge, that's not many, most GMOs that contain additional substances contain natural substances since it's easier to copy an existing gene than making a new one.

To my knowledge, pesticides and glyphosate in the levels present in most food don't really have any effect on our internal microbiome, which is mainly non-plant based and the few plant based single-cellers in that biome aren't that harmed by glyphosate and should quickly develop immunity.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#232

Post by gdyefd0897 »

artimaeis wrote: post #161
lxmcneill wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would either of you please be so kind as to cite your sources?

So I can't claim to be an expert in this subject -- I've got an acute interest in it but am no professional. Regarding monounsaturated fats I was going off of some offhand knowledge -- while the AHA agrees with the claim generally[1], it looks like the truth may be more complicated[2]. Regarding the general un-healthiness of red meats: * There are [3] numerous [4] studies [5] showing a link to an increased mortality…

Claims, based on rat/epidemiological studies.

[1] - WHO Says Meat Causes Cancer?:

https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#233

Post by gdyefd0897 »

windexh8er wrote: post #212
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that a vegetarian diet can mean a diet high in grains. Grains will definitely fatten you up if you're not careful on the amount you eat.

There are so many people that use the "look at this obese vegetarian!" strawman. Does anyone legitimately think a diet of Oreos and Gatorade is healthy? No. Is it vegetarian? Yes. Processed foods are the majority of the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here, yet people dance around it in so many ways. Try this... Most processed foods have a high carb to fiber ratio. That's bad. It's also a leading…

It's a strawman only if you ignore the historical/nutrition data, unless you believe that barley and legumes are processed foods full of added sugars.

"Gladiators, it seems, were fat. Consuming a lot of simple carbohydrates, such as barley, and legumes, like beans, was designed for survival in the arena. Packing in the carbs also packed on the pounds. "Gladiators needed subcutaneous fat," Grossschmidt explains."

https://archive.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/gladiator.htm...

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#234

Post by imtringued »

blueadept111 wrote: post #183
dao- wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why is it unethical for us, specifically, to eat other animals when it's not unethical for other animals? You almost answered your own question. "Unethical" is a foreign concept for animals because they don't even have ethics. Humans do, and these ethics have implications for how you should or should not treat other sentient life.

Well if I eat a salmon, then I'm actually saving the lives of all the other other fish that the salmon would have eaten if I hadn't eaten the salmon. So in that case, it's unethical NOT to eat salmon. Oh my, there's just no rest for the weary ethics student.

This logic doesn't work if you intentionally let it eat the other fish so you can eat the salmon.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#235

Post by imtringued »

omarhaneef wrote: post #11

I think the part that rings clearly in my head is the ethical part. I really cannot believe we eat animals. I know other animals do it all the time -- and I don't hold it against tigers and lions -- but its still strange to me that we, humans, do it. If you don't feel that strong surprise, then I think the other arguments may or may not work for you. But if you have that sense that it is strange and perhaps off, then…

Eating animals isn't the problem. The problem is industrial farming. We shouldn't be eating this much meat every single day and as a consequence we have to treat the animals like prisoners and maximize their suffering. 200 years ago there wasn't a huge ethical problem, because back then the animals had more uses than just eating them. They pulled the plow, carried the harvest, etc so there was a reason to treat them well and keep them healthy. Nowadays we don't give a shit.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#236

Post by windexh8er »

gdyefd0897 wrote: post #233
windexh8er wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people that use the "look at this obese vegetarian!" strawman. Does anyone legitimately think a diet of Oreos and Gatorade is healthy? No. Is it vegetarian? Yes. Processed foods are the majority of the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here, yet people dance around it in so many ways. Try this... Most processed foods have a high carb to fiber ratio. That's bad. It's also a leading…

It's a strawman only if you ignore the historical/nutrition data, unless you believe that barley and legumes are processed foods full of added sugars. "Gladiators, it seems, were fat. Consuming a lot of simple carbohydrates, such as barley, and legumes, like beans, was designed for survival in the arena. Packing in the carbs also packed on the pounds. "Gladiators needed subcutaneous fat," Grossschmidt explains." http…

Consuming copious amounts of anything with a high carb/calorie load can make you fat. Barley, sweet potatos, cookies, etc. If your point is that eating a lot can cause your body to store energy then well done.

Did I state otherwise? No.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#237

Post by rsj_hn »

pcstl wrote: post #104

While I am all for the end of the beef industry, I don't think it's happening until we get actual synthetic lab-produced animal tissue. It's great that we have companies like Beyond Meat and Impossible working on this - this is the work that will eventually lead to the meat industry going away for good, or at least becoming a niche industry - but until we can synthesize actual meat many people will hold out.

There is already a technology for turning plants into burgers -- Cows. It's time tested, natural, and requires only dry land and a bit of evolution. Also tastes great!

If you have a problem with the beef industry, you can deal with it like all the other problems with other industries, from financials to pharmaceutical. You regulate the industry.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#238

Post by jessaustin »

mythrwy wrote: post #95
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why is that land used for livestock? Much of this is land in the west, and there's not much else you can do with it. You can't grow crops on it - not enough water. You can't even grow trees on it - not much land got cleared of trees to make room for grazing. All you can do is run some cows or sheep on it. And, behold, it becomes part of this huge acreage used for cattle.

Cattle _can_ be extremely environmentally destructive. I was always angry to see them out grazing on public lands in the Sonoran desert where they trample emerging small cactus and graze down the nurse plants small saguaro need to get started. They also trash sensitive riparian areas. There was no animal like that there, cattle should not be in that area in my opinion, most especially on public ground. However enviro…

Yes it would be nice to separate the two issues. We can all agree that Western ranchers should not be subsidized by the federal government to destroy fragile desert ecosystems. I own cattle that graze on my own land and other land I rent from private owners in the Midwest, so this subsidy always seemed a bit unfair.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#239

Post by gdyefd0897 »

windexh8er wrote: post #236
gdyefd0897 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a strawman only if you ignore the historical/nutrition data, unless you believe that barley and legumes are processed foods full of added sugars. "Gladiators, it seems, were fat. Consuming a lot of simple carbohydrates, such as barley, and legumes, like beans, was designed for survival in the arena. Packing in the carbs also packed on the pounds. "Gladiators needed subcutaneous fat," Grossschmidt explains." http…

Consuming copious amounts of anything with a high carb/calorie load can make you fat. Barley, sweet potatos, cookies, etc. If your point is that eating a lot can cause your body to store energy then well done. Did I state otherwise? No.

Of course you did

First you started by saying how "Processed foods are the the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here"

and then

"But so many overlook how carbs are good. Fruits and vegetables are loaded with carbs and fiber. Most people don't think 5 grams of broccoli carbs are bad for you, but it's obvious when you compare those 5 grams from broccoli to 5 grams of carbs from Oreos."

According to you then barley and legumes which are loaded with carbs (Good carbs, not Oreos carbs) and fibers are good and doesn't make someone fat, because as you wrote, processed foods are the issue, right? Nowhere in my post i say anything about "copious amounts", you did.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#240

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

windexh8er wrote: post #212
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that a vegetarian diet can mean a diet high in grains. Grains will definitely fatten you up if you're not careful on the amount you eat.

There are so many people that use the "look at this obese vegetarian!" strawman. Does anyone legitimately think a diet of Oreos and Gatorade is healthy? No. Is it vegetarian? Yes. Processed foods are the majority of the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here, yet people dance around it in so many ways. Try this... Most processed foods have a high carb to fiber ratio. That's bad. It's also a leading…

I think the point is that vegeterism has been thought of as an automatic healthy diet. At least that's what I thought until my doctor told me that he had vegetarian patients that were obese and dealing with the related problems. Vegeterisim is only healthy if you eat the right diet and don't over do it.
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