Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome • Hacker News Board

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#231

Post by AJ007 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #149

SamWhited wrote: post #75

I thought this was just me and their stupid caption being impossible for even humans to solve; turns out I was just being gaslighted this entire time and they're just discriminating against Firefox users? How does the EU or someone not shut down this sort of anti-competative monopolostic nosense? I didn't think I could get more furious about having to struggle with these captions all day, but somehow I am. Please eve…

they're just discriminating against Firefox users? At least part of the behaviour shown in the video depends on factors like cookies, IP address, and whether you have features like anti-fingerprinting protection turned on. [1] Recaptcha is frustrating and I dislike it, especially the slow fade-ins and multiple challenges, but if you repeat the test shown in the video you won't find it 100% repeatable just because you…

If it can be statistically proven that this is occurring more on Firefox than Chrome then Google has a really, really big problem. The burden to make sure it isn’t is on them, most especially in the EU. Google is facing a very real future where they will have no web browser and possibly no operating system.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#232

Post by sonnyblarney » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #37

sonnyblarney wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's the most obvious internet rage trigger. But I can't figure out why they make a 'delay'? Why not just show the next dam image?

To make it more expensive for bots to try this at scale, obviously. Unfortunately it's making it more expensive for humans too.

I don't agree that's it.

... it really doesn't make it that much more expensive for bots, it's just a short delay. In fact, I doubt it makes a difference at all.

But it makes things really annoying for humans.

So I don't see any advantage in that trade-off.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#233

Post by NelsonMinar » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

Do websites get paid to run reCAPTCHA?

I keep seeing reCAPTCHA installed on very low security sites that don't seem like targets for automated bots. I'm wondering if they have some external incentive to install it.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#234

Post by izacus » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

bluehatbrit wrote: post #140

I'm from the UK and often get very American questions. Such as "select all the images with cross-walks". This isn't really a phrase we have over here, so when I first got this I had no idea what I was meant to be looking for in the array of random pictures and actually had to look it up to get past it. If you're going to force me to do a captcha, at least localise the damn questions. Do other non-American's get this…

American storefronts are always an interesting guesswork for me. "Is this a rundown shack or an actual store?"

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#235

Post by quwert95 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

As a developer who has worked with reCAPTCHA in the past and as a diehard Firefox user, what likely happened here is a form of shadow banning.

You're moving too fast; your mouse and mouse clicks are "too good" to be human. Try solving the reCAPTCHA slower and you'll see wildly different results, or, purposely fail one reCAPTCHA to get easier ones.

reCAPTCHA tech is crazy; reCAPTCHAs are not simple web forms and Javascript, they're a sandboxed and monitored 'window' to a Google server. If you solve too many reCAPTCHAs too quickly (ie. when you are testing a web page, or are rotating your passwords on many websites) then Google's servers will try to rate limit you with slow animations and harder reCAPTCHAs.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#236

Post by NelsonMinar » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

Ocha wrote: post #27

FYI. Title is misleading. This experience has nothing to do Firefox vs Chrome. Result is because of 3rd party cookie and tracker blocking. I had same and even worse (I was not able to get through captcha) experience on chrome itself because I have 3rd party cookies disabled and couple privacy oriented extensions running.

reCAPTCHA needs to be re-engineered to work even in the face of privacy measures in browsers. Otherwise it will be better at distinguishing expert humans from ordinary humans than at distinguishing bots from humans.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#237

Post by izacus » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

pgug wrote: post #40

I there any anti reCaptcha or anti Google, that I can donate to? I want to donate a small amount every time Google forces me to solve their problems.

Pay the website owner to remove reCaptcha from the sites you use?

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#238

Post by lern_too_spel » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #39

I was going through the same ordeal as a Firefox user, so I've made Buster to solve challenges and reclaim some of that lost time: https://github.com/dessant/buster If you're a developer, please consider replacing reCAPTCHA on your site with an alternative. reCAPTCHA discriminates against people with disabilities and those who seek privacy, and it gaslights you into thinking you did not solve the challenge correctly,…

Thanks for this. Extensions like this one make Firefox for Android worth it despite all the quirks.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#239

Post by ysavir » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #138

briandear wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending my data to Google as a condition of using someone else’s site also isn’t secure. Training Google AI also isn’t something I signed up for.

Not saying I like the precedent of Google being inescapable, you're not "signing up" for anything. A web server is 100% in its rights to refuse to send you a page, on their terms.

I believe we agree with you there. OP was just referencing the methodologies people user, often choosing tools like Google Analytics and ReCaptcha that are "free" by virtue of offloading compromises onto the site's users rather than the site itself.

I endorse a site's right to forbid me its content if I can't prove I'm human. I won't endorse a site that accomplishes it by asking me to pay the cost.

Re: Google's Captcha in Firefox vs. in Chrome

#240

Post by benologist » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

worble wrote: post #157

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have literally been times where I debated whether or not I wanted to purchase something because of the knowledge that I would have to solve Google's captcha. Humble Bundle, in particular--the login process for me (due to uBlock+uMatrix installed) is like this: 1) Try to login 2) Login doesn't show up--go to uMatrix and whitelist some crap. 3) Try to login again. 4) First phase of login completes, now blank when…

>Humble Bundle, in particular Funny you should mention that, I actually wrote an email to support asking them to have frickin mercy with the google captchas. The response was as you expect "we do this for safety and protection, yada yada" which to be fair, I obviously didn't expect them to change anything, although I hope it did help raise some awareness. The interesting thing I got out of it was that they mentioned…

I've emailed them about it as well. Totally sick of having to grind through Google to sign in to HB, I've not bought stuff because of the effort too. I also really don't think it's appropriate to include Google as a third-party in login processes anymore.