YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#231

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #28

wnevets wrote: post #15

Why do some people think they're entitled to say what they want on youtube?

Youtube is the most popular video website on the internet. This makes it a fundamental human right. I am being sarcastic.

If a private developer were to take over most residential areas in a section of town, they would be responsible for providing public access, affordable housing, and other responsibilities normally associated with the government. This is enshrined in law - a private company that is the de-facto entity for a particular function gains the responsibilities of acting as a government entity.

Since YouTube has a monopoly on video content on the internet, it may be reasonable to require YouTube to take on responsibilities normally handled by the government, such as ensuring the freedom of speech on their platform.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#232

Post by lugg » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #15

Why do some people think they're entitled to say what they want on youtube?

Probably because it's literally what YouTube is?

Why do you think a nation of free speaking individuals is patently not entitled to say what they want on a platform specifically created to allow people to say whatever they want?

To be absolutely clear on my position, I am not saying YouTube is acting outside their rights to censor content. But I am very much saying people have a right to be peeved about the bait and switch.

Further to my point. People being concerned about who and what specifically will be caught up in this is well, well within reason to bring into question given their current approach to takedowns which consistently missflag videos inappropriately.

"It's their business they can do what they want" isn't a valid argument against any of these questions, you're just stating a fact that doesn't answer or even acknowledge the potentially problematic situation at hand.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#233

Post by ctlby » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

vowelless wrote: post #126

chrisjc wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> White supremacy is a much bigger deal with a worse tail risk than Islamic extremism. Wait... you're saying that white supremacy is worse than islamic extremism? Is you opinion perhaps a manifestation of your perspective? I'm sure there are some people in Syria, Afghanistan, etc... that would disagree with you. BTW, I'm not saying one is worse than the other, just that they are both bad, both a problem, and both sho…

White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them.

Leftism was the cause of the worst crimes of the 20th century (whose death tolls wildly exceed even that of WWII). The real tail risk resides in views that are considered perfectly respectable.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#234

Post by jsonne » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

It's curious to me that people who were absolutely up in arms about ISPs censoring content are 100% okay with Youtube doing it. Not that I support the views that these videos they're removing espouse (I don't) but it seems to me to be a pretty big about face by this community.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#235

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #104

rukittenme wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people view free speech as more than a legal requirement. Its a philosophy of individual rights.

Getting banned from YouTube is not a violation of individual rights. Forcing a company to host videos for free sounds like a violation of individual rights though.

They aren't hosting the videos for free - they're displaying them alongside advertisements to make revenue off those videos.

Also, the rights given an individual are distinct from the rights given to a company, and IMO are distinct from the rights a company deserves (i.e. a company has no inherent right to exist).

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#236

Post by rukittenme » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

rukittenme wrote: post #77

nyc_data_geek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany does fine not allowing for nazi ideology to be espoused. Commoditizing the spread of bad ideas is not, in fact, a public good.

Please cite your source. > According to the annual report of Germany's interior intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) for 2012, at the time there were 26,000 right-wing extremists living in Germany, including 6,000 neo-Nazis. > The National Socialist Movement (NSM), with about 400 members in 32 states,[195] is currently the largest neo-Nazi organization in the United States. It seems the right to free speech and t…

The "Unite the Right" rally held in Charlottesville, the rally in which Heather Heyer was killed by a white supremacist, had ~20-40 attendees.

There were several thousand counter-protestors.

This is a Neo-Nazi rally in Germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZPs48rKhw

Please describe, in your own words, how the restriction of free speech and association has curtailed the organization of Neo-Nazi movements.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#237

Post by chrisjc » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

gaogao wrote: post #194

chrisjc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Again, I think that statement is shaped by your perspective. I imagine a lot of Russian, Chinese and Africans would disagree with you about that.

If you recognize that racial supremacy goes hand-in-hand with the imperialistic expansionism of Nazi Germany and Japan, I think it's fairly apt descriptor of one of the major causes of the war.

bait and switch

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#238

Post by theonlyklas » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

lostmymind66 wrote: post #164

AndrewStephens wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shocked when news sites started publishing comments as a matter of course. They worked so hard to research and create a 2000 word article that accurately reflects the world (in accordance to their editorial guidelines) using their good name - and then let fReEtHiNkErChAd and 2020BloodInTheStreets chime in at the end. It would be OK if they strictly moderated the comments, but few sites seem to do that.

"They worked so hard to research and create a 2000 word article that accurately reflects the world" I find this laughable. Many recent articles I've seen are designed to get clicks and have nothing to do with good journalism or research beyond what someone can get from behind a keyboard.

A lot that I've read in the past few years read like AI has written them. It wouldn't surprise me if major news publishers removed writing positions and replaced them with AI.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#239

Post by Retra » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #214

Retra wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their interests are to advocate for violence, why would you expect their ability to advocate in public to lead to peace?

Everyone advocates for violence in some circumstances, except perfect pacifists.

And the world is a more violent place because of it.

Nevertheless, there is big difference between the way violence is advocated for between moderates and extremists in terms of severity, frequency, and justification.

I didn't ask you who advocates for violence, I asked you why you thought the unrestricted public speech of extremists leads to peace.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#240

Post by remarkEon » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

lugg wrote: post #201

vowelless wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, awlakis sermons were not even “extreme”. They didn’t call for violence. They just talked about how great heaven was. YouTube rightly removed those videos because they were inspiring suicide attacks by teaching pretty mainstream Islamic beliefs like: martyrs go to heaven. Would be for or against YouTube removing videos that encouraged suicide in depressed individuals?

How is that not extreme?

The paradox here is that calling what are mainstream views within Islam “extremist” is in itself an “extreme” and potentially “bigoted” view ... which could get you banned.