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Beyond Meat S-1

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Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#231

Post by toomuchtodo »

somberi wrote: post #209
daeken wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely can't imagine an outcome where these don't become commonplace. Not going to predict that they're going to replace beef or anything, but it won't be weird to get a meat substitute burger from Wendy's or the like.

Burger King (limited trials) and White Castle (370 outlets), already carry Impossible Burger patties. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/02/burger-king...

White Castle Impossible patties are delicious. I don't order traditional meat there anymore because of it.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#232

Post by jversd673 »

geogra4 wrote: post #63
alimhaq wrote: post #45

This is probably an unpopular opinion here but I don't think these meat substitutes are sustainable for long term health in humans...our bodies are clearly designed to consume meat (especially apparent when you compare our bodies to those of our mostly herbivore relatives) and by extension we need these nutrients to thrive (not just survive, mind you). I understand the incentive for people to go vegan but people shou…

What kind of comparison are you referring to? Are there studies of some kind that you're referencing? Most of the scientific research[0] points towards plant based diets being the best thing for us. [0]: https://www.pcrm.org/clinical-research

Most scientific research made by Neal D. Barnard proponent of Vegan/plant-based diet and founder of the said Committee.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#233

Post by kasey_junk »

rayiner wrote: post #176
djakjxnanjak wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Help me figure out the right messaging for what we should tell Bangladeshis that they shouldn't eat meat now that they're finally getting to be able to afford it. Are you trying to say we shouldn’t save the world from environmental destruction because it might be awkward to ask some people to switch to fake meat? How about this messaging: “we are destroying the world, we need to stop”

You're not going to "save the world from environmental destruction" by telling people to give up meat, because as India and China (not to mention Africa) develop, meat will become a minor component of their CO2 footprint just as it is in the United States. The anti-meat messaging will be seen as both stupid (because it won't help) and hypocritical ("how about we continue to eat meat, and Americans take their turn liv…

Your final point is the big deal. If western countries largely move to vegetable based meat, not only do we win in real terms we get a huge moral argument. Which is worth a lot.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#234

Post by everdev »

pembrook wrote: post #224
bluntfang wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we do know for sure is that the animal would not have lived the same life if it weren't captive. >A free range animal that's being humanely put down by a farmer has a much more pleasant life. I don't think we can objectively say this. We have no idea what these animals want. Our humanity for these animals lives is nothing short of projection, purely because we have no idea what they want.

We can 100% objectively say this. Animals like chickens lack self awareness and the ability for future planning. They operate on instinct. We can prove this. Thus, they also don't know what they want --outside of the immediate satisfaction of an instinctual urge. They do feel pain and hunger however. In the wild, these animals suffer more pain and hunger. In free range "captivity" they suffer less. It's as simple as…

> Stop ascribing human-like emotions and awareness to other species.

Well, take a monkey, orca, elephant, dolphin, etc. and it would be hard not to. Sure, many farm animals fall below that level, but they're not bugs either. Many mammals have some basic language, care for their young, give distress calls, migrate, find shelter, etc. which seems to indicate at least some level of future planning whether innate or not. And many intelligent mammals have been seen grieving the dead or rescuing animals from danger.

> In free range "captivity" they suffer less. It's as simple as that.

Yet philosophy courses still exist... Because it's not as simple as that. For some, life is more than just the reduction of suffering. And there are a million other ways to answer "why we exist" or "how we should live".

For animals, we don't know. I think it's absurd to say we're giving them a better/easier/happier life on a farm or out in the wild. We don't know.

Taking zoos as an example though (which is a similar form of captivity, except they don't kill their animals), most people don't think it's a better life, except in the case where the animal is so weak, sick or unable to care for itself that it couldn't hunt in the wild.

Tons of prey animals are reintroduced to the wild, without concern that they might be eaten (some will), but in the hopes that many will survive and reproduce.

So, I guess if your goal is to ensure that the most number of animals lead a somewhat confined life away from predators until they're done growing, farms make sense. If your goal is to ensure that animals get to experience life in their native habitats including the ability to mate and get eaten, then farms aren't so good.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#235

Post by pembrook »

Accacin wrote: post #225
DamnYuppie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is a good place for a rant for some down votes. The concept that death is cruel is ridiculous to me. EVRYTHING DIES, every animal in nature either dies of starvation, freezing to death, dies in a conflict with their own species for breeding rights, or gets to be attacked and eaten alive by a predator. The entirety of nature revolves around life and death struggles. Dying isn't cruel, to think so is a rej…

Not going to downvote you as everyone has an opinion, but this argument is ridiculous. If you're saying everything dies so it doesn't matter, why is it wrong to kill another human? And dying isn't cruel (or the problem - once I'm dead I probably won't care exactly how I died), it's humans killing them that's the problem for people like me. The fact is it's completely unnecessary. We don't need meat and we waste far t…

Using your logic, everything we do can be considered an unnecessary waste of resources. We don't need the internet and cars and air conditioning and plane travel and television and houses and land ownership and governments and militaries, etc. etc.

To continue down your slippery slope, you'll find the only proper way to live is to revert to the woods and live as a hunter-gatherer society.

Where you chose to draw the line is just as arbitrary as where the OP chooses to draw the line. To claim yourself as morally superior is ridiculous.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#236

Post by virtuallynathan »

ppseafield wrote: post #146
WhompingWindows wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending life is not necessarily cruel...how about for veterinarians utilizing euthanasia? Let's say you have an animal that's 95% going to die sometime within 12-24 hours. If your client can pay $5000, which they can't usually, the chances improve to 50% chance of living. In most cases, for money or for suffering, euthanasia is the least cruel option, as it's vastly more affordable and a painless, harmless process.

Euthanasia and factory farming are apples and oranges. Cows can live up to 20 years, but are often killed at 18-24 months. They aren't killed with euthanasia, but panicked and terrified, with bolts to the skull and slit throats, right after seeing several other cows killed that way. Their lives before that are often miserable to keep costs down. Is that the least cruel option?

Cows aren't panicked and terrified, the hormone release from that would result in poor quality meat that has to be discarded. The slaughterhouses are humanely designed thanks to people like Temple Grandin. The cows are calm until the end.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#237

Post by pembrook »

everdev wrote: post #234
pembrook wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can 100% objectively say this. Animals like chickens lack self awareness and the ability for future planning. They operate on instinct. We can prove this. Thus, they also don't know what they want --outside of the immediate satisfaction of an instinctual urge. They do feel pain and hunger however. In the wild, these animals suffer more pain and hunger. In free range "captivity" they suffer less. It's as simple as…

> Stop ascribing human-like emotions and awareness to other species. Well, take a monkey, orca, elephant, dolphin, etc. and it would be hard not to. Sure, many farm animals fall below that level, but they're not bugs either. Many mammals have some basic language, care for their young, give distress calls, migrate, find shelter, etc. which seems to indicate at least some level of future planning whether innate or not.…

> ensure that animals get to experience life in their native habitats including the ability to mate and get eaten

This falls under A) fallacious appeal to nature.

You're suggesting that living is nature is the better way to live simply because it is natural.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#238

Post by sridca »

Pfhreak wrote: post #115
firethief wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That theoretical distinction makes sense to me, but I don't see how it would be possible to support one kind of animal agriculture and not the other with purchasing habits. When most consumers don't distinguish provenance, demand for animal products is fungible.

What I did: stop purchasing meat from the supermarket. Stop eating meat at restaurants. Find a local farmer and source a whole animal to split with your friends. Visit the farm, meet the farmer. A whole beef is a few thousand dollars, and splits nicely into 8ths. We spent, I believe, ~$6.50/lb for organic, grass fed beef. It's more time and cost up front, but now we have a freezer full of meat to draw from when we ne…

Food cooperatives are another option, which is what I increasingly use: http://www.lamauve.com/

They taste better than grocery store meat too.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#239

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

r00fus wrote: post #7

So I've had an Impossible burger (from my company cafeteria), but it was probably over-cooked. Does anyone know where I could taste-test a Beyond burger vs. Impossible burger? Definitely interested in this space as it's one of the surefire ways we reduce both energy and water, and I have family who are veggie and this makes it easier for me to connect with them.

Umami Burger in the bay area (at least the one in SF) has the latest Impossible 2 burger patty. Rosemunde offers the Beyond Sausage, I am unsure of a place that sells the Beyond Burger in SF.

Re: Beyond Meat S-1

#240

Post by Pfhreak »

rubicon33 wrote: post #202
Pfhreak wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. Not every farmer will let you, but I definitely had the opportunity. (My farmer gave me the choice between three animals.) I think the 'bashing it with a rock' is sort of the thing I'm trying to avoid. My farmer brings a USDA butcher to his site to kill the animal (the kills are done away from the pasture space). The offal is removed there. If you want the tongue, heart, liver, etc. you show up on slaughter…

I've been following this thread and it's gotten me curious. I can't help but wonder - do you have some kind of personal connection to this farmer? How does one source a farmer, let alone one that is willing to let you meet the cow, be there on slaughter day, etc. These are all things that are foreign to most people.

No personal connection at all. I cold called around. My local farmers markets publish a guide of local farmers. [1]

I just put together a spreadsheet with all the farms within 50 miles and visited a few websites/made a few calls. Some farmers had already sold their beef for the season, others weren't grass fed, etc. Eventually I narrowed the candidate pool down to two or three and asked if I could come see their farms. One farmer said no, so I went with one of the others.

[1] http://www.pugetsoundfresh.org/

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