Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#231

Post by School-Cotton » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

jordanbeiber wrote: post #223

robertAngst wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

In my experience: it’s ”unix” on a laptop that just works. Easy access to up-to-date tooling through brew: zsh, docker, bash, vim et al. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve been a Linux only user since the 90’s and for many years used the dell xps developer edition. But, the mac touchpad (I know, I’m doing it wrong) and screen coupled with superior battery time as well as solid sleep/wakeup makes for a great experience. The…

What is "unixy" about brew or docker?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#232

Post by hobs » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

salsadip wrote: post #190

alehul wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

Have you actually used the mouse? I haven't, but hearing from people that have actually used it (and not gotten all worked up about how bad this design is in theory) - they actually thought it was the BETTER design as the battery charged ridiculously fast. Meaning when they ran out they would charge it for a minute and got like a couple hours of use. This resulted in them actually using it as a wireless mouse instead…

So you are saying that putting the port in the wrong place made it charge faster?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#233

Post by alehul » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

salsadip wrote: post #190

alehul wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea. For those not familiar with the Apple Mouse, the commenter means that the power plug is on the part that you’re supposed to have on the mousepad, meaning you can’t charge it while using it, at all. Easily the worst way to design a mouse, ever. I don’t understand how it was approved.

Have you actually used the mouse? I haven't, but hearing from people that have actually used it (and not gotten all worked up about how bad this design is in theory) - they actually thought it was the BETTER design as the battery charged ridiculously fast. Meaning when they ran out they would charge it for a minute and got like a couple hours of use. This resulted in them actually using it as a wireless mouse instead…

I have used the mouse, yes— I understand what you're pitching, but I think that ultimately the user can decide whether they want it to be a wireless mouse or a wired mouse, depending on their needs.

Putting it on the bottom did nothing but remove that optionality for the user, and that can be really frustrating.

Unless the reason it charged so quickly was because it connected to the bottom of the mouse, I don't see the justification.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#234

Post by sonnyblarney » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

robertAngst wrote: post #142

sonnyblarney wrote: post #76

I think the butterfly keys are great, when I got used to them going back to anything else felt like a step back. Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. If they repair for free. The issue with Mac is they are too expensive and a lot of the regular, non-iPhone stuff is languishing.

>Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. No, when your product doesnt work, that is unacceptable.

This the real world: every physical product has tolerances and exhibits problems, and most that are expensive require maintenance. Moreover, new features are going to be problematic.

Consider your statement as it would apply to cars for example: they are in constant need of repair, tweaking, maintenance.

Butterfly keyboards have never been a problem for me, the issue is really the rate of problems, how they are fixed, who pays for it.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#235

Post by cobbzilla » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #185

jvatic wrote: post #176

My main complaint with their new keyboard design, not having used it enough to encounter any reliability issues, is that it’s just way too cramped to actually type on. I’ve since gone back to an older MBP, but while I was using the newer design I found the only way I could actually type on it was using an external keyboard. There really wasn’t anything wrong with the 2012/2015 form factor and I wish they’d go back to…

I too had to go back to an older MBP, but not because the keyboard was cramped. My complaints: 1. Not enough tactile feedback from keys. I have to carefully calibrate the amount of muscle power I use to hit the keys, which paradoxically increases the pain in the joints of my fingers. 2. Lack of a physical ESC key. I touch type, and this makes writing code rather difficult. 3. Lack of USB port. Lack of HDMI port. Lack…

Re 2, I remapped the tilde key to escape because it was driving me nuts. I do still want to type a tilde char sometimes, so that is now Alt-tilde. Thank goodness for Karabiner.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#236

Post by seba_dos1 » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

dsego wrote: post #186

seba_dos1 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of non-Apple hidpi laptops.

How is win or linux support for those these days?

Dunno about Windows, but on GNU/Linux (Plasma user here) it's pretty solid these days. It's problematic on X11 only when you have multiple screens with different DPIs, but I connect external screens only for movies or slides, so that's a non-issue for me - plus if you're fine with Wayland (I'm not yet, but it's close) it's pretty much solved there.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#237

Post by wtallis » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #83

kkarakk wrote: post #21

i am absolutely laughing at this macbook pro 2017 i bought. the keyboard has been replaced 3 times now...the screen was replaced for stagelight effect(broken connector)...they replaced the whole top bit for that(everything north of the hinge gets replaced) i finally pawned it off on someone else and they promptly fried the motherboard due to water damage(the air intake ports lead directly to the motherboard so good l…

The air intake ports on the MacBook Pro are on the sides/back: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202179 Must have had the unit deeply submerged in water to get it in via those ports. Be interesting to know how that would've happened.

I'm not sure about the 2017 models, but looking at my 2015 MBP I can easily see liquid spilled onto the lower display and hinge being deflected into the vents, especially if the bottom of the machine is propped up at an angle.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#238

Post by LeonM » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

steve19 wrote: post #156

LeonM wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X1 Extreme is a better choice imo, up to 64G (replaceable), 2 m.2 slots, a GTX1050 for casual gaming or ML and a 4K display. I have one on order. There is also the P1, which comes with a Xeon (!) option and Quadro P1000 graphics. The market for the P1 is pretty specific, but if you need those nVidia certified drivers, this is the one. Edit: obviously you wouldn't run Linux on the P1 if you bought it for the certified…

I'm in the market to replace my macbook. Does the X1 Extreme support usb-c charging (charging the laptop with usb-c)?

I ordered the X1X as a replacement for my 2013 rMBP.

One of the requirements I had was that I can use the single cable USB-C 'docking' stations we have at the office, like my colleagues do who are on the new macbooks.

The great thing of the X1 is (imo) that is has USB-C with TB3 and charging capability like the Mac, but it also has 2 USB type A inputs.

That said, charging over USB-C is not ideal, the supplied 100W Lenovo power brick (unfortunately with proprietary connector) will charge the laptop much faster. It wouldn't even surprise me if the laptop actually loses charge under high load when connected to a USB-C charger. My current MBP also does that with a 60W charger connected.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#239

Post by UseStrict » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

j2bax wrote: post #216

ajscanlan wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've also got it happening to us on our 2015 MBPs in work, at least 3 of us have experienced it. Some more than others.

I use AirPods daily with my 2015 MBP and never have disconnect issues. When I first got the AirPods it was far less reliable but I believe a firmware update a couple months after launch cleared up whatever issues I was having.

I happen to have two 2015 15" MBPs, both with Mojave installed. My personal laptop works flawlessly, no disconnects or issues. My work one has constant disconnects, unrecognized devices, etc. It's frustrating.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#240

Post by mrob » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #150

coldtea wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea is you weren't supposed to leave it plugged in. The idea is I don't care about the idea. If I forgot to charge it, or come back from holidays and it's off, I want to be able to plug in and still work. Like with every other mouse. Not to mention: when the charge lasts so long (2 months) it's even easier to forget to recharge it and take it for granted. Unlike something you need to charge e.g. daily or so, t…

> If I forgot to charge it, or come back from holidays and it's off, I want to be able to plug in and still work. As I mentioned elsewhere. You plug it in, go get a cup of coffee and come back with a day+ of usage.

What if you're in the middle of collaborative work? What if you're playing a multiplayer game? Are you going to insist everybody else gets a cup of coffee too?