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Women: Learn to Program This Summer

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231–240 of 606 posts

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not exactly what OP means. What's actually going on is that we have certain expectations around candidates' behavior and the wording they use on their resumes and the way that they respond to technical interviews. These are behaviors that are ingrained for most white men but tend to be less ingrained for women and non-white men. So our hiring processes are subtly biased against anyone who isn't like us. The in…

>non-white men I assume Asian men are actually "white men" for the purposes of your example?

Can you explain a little more what you mean by this or where the disagreement is? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Thanks!

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#232

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

Since it was brought up by @CydeWeys, here is Natalie's GitHub repository of this website: https://github.com/nataliepeterson/coconut . PR's (and issues) are welcome :)

She should definitely send a PR to add herself to fullname.dev then! https://github.com/CydeWeys/fullname.dev

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since it was brought up by @CydeWeys, here is Natalie's GitHub repository of this website: https://github.com/nataliepeterson/coconut . PR's (and issues) are welcome :)

She should definitely send a PR to add herself to fullname.dev then! https://github.com/CydeWeys/fullname.dev

Thanks, I just passed this along to her!

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#234

Isn't programming a skill that can be learned alone in a fairly straightforward manner? I mean, most programming languages have extensive documentation, tutorials and so on (at least FOSS dynamical languages like Python, Rust, Perl...). From my personal experience and what I can guess about hackers I've talked to for instance on IRC, that's how most guys learned it : the web is full of resources for whoever wants to…

I wouldn't equivocate or dismiss classes as "hand holding" - social resources are very important for many people looking to learn a skill. The internet is a messy place and it is difficult to find the correct information without experience. A teacher in this sense acts a curator of information, giving students enough knowledge that they know where to go to learn more, as well as structuring the knowledge in a way tha…

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Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#235
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey dang, ask yourself how much intellectual curiosity is there in this promo post?! quite disingenuous on your side.

It's true that moderation comments are out-of-band for the site. But they're necessary, because the system can't right itself without them. If it helps at all, they're even more tedious to write than they are to read. Edit: mlevental points out that you were referring to the article, not my comment. I think there's plenty of intellectual curiosity in what Jessica wrote, especially in the blog post explaining why she…

the person you're responding to here is trying to point out that the article is disingenuous and so only can generate the same. I don't agree/disagree. just clarifying.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#237
post #216

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[flagged]

It looks like you've been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. We ban accounts that do that, because it destroys the intellectual curiosity that is the reason HN exists. If you would please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Why are his comments "idealogical battle" and the mainstream comments just comments. Clarify that for me, thank you.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#238
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men can talk to other men casually and get loads of useful information that is simply not accessible to me. That is just hard to understand. If your gender is an issue, why even make it public in the first place? I mean, ever heard of the saying "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog." ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...

Her username here is Doreen, and I assume that's her name. Why should she have to hide it? If she has to hide her sex in order to get meaningful answers, that right there is a huge impediment us men in tech never have to experience.

Most people on internet pick a fairly random, gender-neutral pseudonym. Your username for instance is "the_af".

Her picking "Doreen" as a username was her publicizing her gender. She can't do that and at the same time complain about being treated as a woman.

It's not a "huge impediment". She'd just have to pick a gender-neutral pseudonym. Is it really such a big deal?

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. Is there any evidence that this is happening, though? I've never seen anybody, even anecdotally claim "I'm a woman (who is qualified) and I've been unable to find employment". Mostly what I see is people trying to work backwards and say, "if group X makes up Y% of the population and only Z% of programmers, that in itself must be evidence of discr…

I was once sitting on a plane wearing a shirt branded with a major tech company. The person next to me asked if I was a software engineer and I said yes. They excitedly started telling me about how they were doing all this work to groom their young son (age like 6) to go into tech. This person also had a similarly aged daughter and he was doing none of this for her. Perhaps the son really did love this stuff and perh…

> The research community does not have a better explanation for the disparity than social bias

That's not really true. There is a lot of research showing that men and women have different interests and make different life choices, and that these choices impact career demographics. One of the most well-researched differences is that men tend to be more interested in "things", especially mechanical things, and women tend to be more interested in "people".

Here is a journal article from Frontiers in Psychology that investigates how these differences-in-interest impact STEM field participation: "All STEM fields are not created equal: People and things interests explain gender disparities across STEM fields" (1):

> In the current study, we investigated the gender differences in interests as an explanation for the differential distribution of women across sub-disciplines of STEM as well as the overall underrepresentation of women in STEM fields. (...) We found gender differences in interests to vary largely by STEM field, with the largest gender differences in interests favoring men observed in engineering disciplines (d = 0.83–1.21), and in contrast, gender differences in interests favoring women in social sciences and medical services (d = −0.33 and −0.40, respectively).

> Importantly, the gender composition (percentages of women) in STEM fields reflects these gender differences in interests. The patterns of gender differences in interests and the actual gender composition in STEM fields were explained by the people-orientation and things-orientation of work environments, and were not associated with the level of quantitative ability required. (...)

Some studies show that these things-vs-people differences begin to manifest extremely early in life, before humans could be influenced by social factors. One famous study of this phenomenon is "Sex differences in human neonatal social perception" (2):

> Sexual dimorphism in sociability has been documented in humans. The present study aimed to ascertain whether the sexual dimorphism is a result of biological or sociocultural differences between the two sexes. 102 human neonates, who by definition have not yet been influenced by social and cultural factors, were tested to see if there was a difference in looking time at a face (social object) and a mobile (physical-mechanical object). Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger interest in the physical-mechanical mobile while the female infants showed a stronger interest in the face. The results of this research clearly demonstrate that sex differences are in part biological in origin.

It is also known that testosterone levels affect decision-making and career choices, and that women tend to be more financially risk-averse than men. Since men's testosterone levels tend to be much higher than women's, and since men are less risk-averse, that results in demographic differences. For an investigation of this, see the article "Gender differences in financial risk aversion and career choices are affected by testosterone" (3). For another study on sex and brain differences see (4). There is a lot of research out there exploring the differences between men and women, and how those differences play out in our lives.

Every person should be supported in choosing whatever career interests them, and should not be judged based on demographics. I'm not advocating for any kind of discrimination. I am just observing that even with total equality of opportunity, if there are biological trends in interest differences, then we will see differences in overall job demographics.

(1) https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.0018... (2) https://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/5b1501/F/sex.pdf (3) https://www.pnas.org/content/106/36/15268.full (4) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030621/

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#240
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you leverage your ethnicity to get a competitive advantage in your job search?

Without doxing myself... It’s not apparently obvious what ethnicity I am based on looks. I had already been told there was a focus on diversity at the company I ended up getting an offer at and they “really want to build a diverse team from the ground up”. The conversation had been dragging for months and I resisted bringing up my background out of principle. I saw the hiring manager tweeting about a Latinx conferenc…

Asquerosa la situacion, pero entiendo porque lo hiciste. Latinx es un termino gringo que me hace cagar de riza lol. Por el culo, somos Latinos y Latinas. No LaTiNX.
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