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FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

washingtonpost.com

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Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#231

Post by bachmeier »

nemothekid wrote: post #141
logfromblammo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite understood why people donate to colleges in such a way that it is the legal entity of the university that benefits. They provide a service, and they charge money for it. The university operates as a business. I don't donate to Wal-Mart, so why would I donate to University X? Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college? Instead of giving cash to Wal-Mart, buy prepai…

Most universities primary function is research, and tuition doesn't pay for research. Most funds from research (should) come from grants and donations. The research into a cancer cure doesn't come from Jimmy Undergrad paying tuition.

> Most universities primary function is research

Actually, in the US, at the vast majority of universities, the primary job of faculty involves teaching, extension/outreach, and forms of service like mentoring students. Most universities have research expectations, but that is not how faculty spend their time.

> and tuition doesn't pay for research.

This is a STEM-oriented view. In a lot of fields the primary cost of research is faculty time, and it is often paid by tuition.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#232

Post by bachmeier »

logfromblammo wrote: post #132
Balgair wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: In my extended family, we have some members with a fair bit of 'bread'. These family members met at a somewhat known (yet small-ish) college and really loved the place and all the memories they had there. They donated a lot of money over the years and, yes, had a building named after them. When it came time for their daughter to apply to college, the choice was obvious. However, the daughter was rejected ou…

I never quite understood why people donate to colleges in such a way that it is the legal entity of the university that benefits. They provide a service, and they charge money for it. The university operates as a business. I don't donate to Wal-Mart, so why would I donate to University X? Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college? Instead of giving cash to Wal-Mart, buy prepai…

> Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college?

Many people do. They also give money to improve football facilities, bring speakers to campus, and endow a chaired professor position.

> I don't donate to Wal-Mart, so why would I donate to University X?

Because a university is a nonprofit that exists only for the purpose of improving the world. (Not necessarily the employees, who work there as a job, but it's why universities exist.)

You probably don't see a lot of donations to the University of Phoenix or other for-profit universities.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#233

Post by toomuchtodo »

anigbrowl wrote: post #205
Balgair wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, they tried so hard on your behalf. They spent so much money on you. They really did it out of the goodness of their hearts and in love of their child, in their own twisted way. And now? I mean, it all blew up in their faces. All their best intentions made everything just so much more horrible for their children. They'll never wash this off. My lord, not even Aristophanes himself could write a tragedy on this sc…

They were thinking this is how you get ahead because that's how a lot of people get ahead. Not to be cliche about it, but there is rather a lot of corruption in the upper echelons of society.

And there shouldn't be, which is why efforts like this are necessary.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#234

Post by austincheney »

Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

No empathy. The entire system is pay to play for the social connections. If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different.

I saw similar fabrications growing up as I attended one of the wealthiest high schools in the country. The top 10 of my graduating class got complete scholarships the most expensive schools in the country and the parents were willing to do anything to the school faculty to make sure their child had a higher class rank.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#235

Post by akhilcacharya »

highschoolx wrote: post #198

US high school senior here. Made a throwaway for this. Seeing this makes my blood boil. Not only is it essentially an open secret that the admissions process actively discriminates against Asians and other high-achieving ethnic groups--and gives a massive leg up to legacies, children of donors, etc.--these people thought they were good enough, by virtue of their wealth, to bribe and cheat their way into these top uni…

I worked hard for 8 years of my life for a nil result in terms of college too and unlike you I definitely didn't get into a top university - what exactly does that make me?

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#236

Post by ghobs91 »

This is why they should make it law that your kids can't attend a university if you've donated there. This and the legacy admissions nonsense is beyond absurd.

It's why I roll my eyes so hard when investors say that attending a top school is a "signal" that makes you a better bet to invest in as a founder. That signal is pretty damn weak if those top schools so rampantly accept bribes.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#237

Post by bsanr »

Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

>One day you are a USC/Harvard/Stanford grad. The next day you are a fraud. And not only that, you are revealed to the entire world to be dumb as a box of rocks, just totally naked and shamed. And you had no clue. Your closest family members spent tens of thousands of dollars fooling you, committing very serious crimes on your behalf, and all the while, lying to you about your intelligence and work ethic.

It's not really that far off the general experience of being an American, what with all the stolen land, stolen labor, and stolen research, the history of which apparently no one seems to know about, let alone work into their fundamental understanding of what our country is and how it came to be.

To some degree, the notion that it's "totally unreal" speaks to how thoroughly failed most Americans have been by both history education and our common mythos.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#238

Post by akhilcacharya »

aliston wrote: post #148
jedberg wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that the college you attend, especially for undergrad, has relatively little bearing on your life as a whole. In most cases yes. But when we're talking about elite colleges, it has significant bearing. Living in the dorm with a future CEO may be helpful in your future job search, and if you go to an elite college, you have a much better chance of having done that. Going to Stanford or Berkeley or MIT…

My point is not that going to a top college isn't a great opportunity. My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining. Someone with that sort of intelligence and drive will find a way to meet the future CEO, get a great job and so on regardless of whether they attend. I went to Stanford. I love my undergrad. But I also have faced plenty of rejection and advers…

>My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining.

I didn't get into Stanford (or anything like that, best I did was UNC in-state) - what exactly are my options here? It seems to me what you just said only applies to my intellectual superiors who are choosing between Stanford and UC Irvine, not the people that go to UC Irvine or Santa Cruz or Merced because they couldn't get into Berkeley or Stanford (who make up the majority of the country).

The fact is that people have this weird idea that college doesn't matter come from a position of immense privilege that someone like me doesn't even have the capacity to fathom. Of course it matters - being a Cardinal is a life-long thing, but being a member of the Wolfpack is more of a temporary embarrassment at best.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#239

Post by mpweiher »

bilbo0s wrote: post #23
naveen99 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s different in the scale of the donation. 2 Million dollar donation materially improves things for other students and is tax deductible. $15,000 bribe doesn’t do much for other students except rob them of a spot.

This. A guy donates an engineering complex, and every engineering student on that campus gets to take advantage of said complex and its resources. Guy donates a new business school building and every student on that campus can take advantage of said building and its resources. In exchange, the university lets in two girls, their daughters or whatever, who might want to major in Art History and French, and coincidenta…

If that's a reasonable proposition within the system, maybe the system is broken?

Also, in the interest of truth-in-advertising, shouldn't the institutions that practice this not have to rename themselves from "university" or "college" to "degree supermarket"?

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#240

Post by akhilcacharya »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #197
aliston wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is not that going to a top college isn't a great opportunity. My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining. Someone with that sort of intelligence and drive will find a way to meet the future CEO, get a great job and so on regardless of whether they attend. I went to Stanford. I love my undergrad. But I also have faced plenty of rejection and advers…

You really believe that a person with the same intelligence and drive who goes to say Stanford vs a mid tier state university will have the same outcomes in life? Unless this person has an exceptional will, this will never be the case. The kind of network that you will probably build at Stanford without noticing is vastly superior to the one at a mid tier state university. You probably personally know many people who…

You're right.

But I'm more curious as to the people that can't get into Stanford and have to go to lesser schools like I did - what exactly are we to do? It's pretty clear that our outcomes are not going to be as good by any means, and it seems like political correctness limits any discussion of that.

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