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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#231
post #190
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excessive maybe, but not false, and only to counter his blatant miscategorization to which I was responding. I underestimated the support for JDP here, which is my bad but I am happy to defend him. My mother is an anthropologist. The social sciences are flawed in many ways but JDP fully acknowledges and navigates this. If anyone has better ideas or conclusions than he does please share. He wants to know. We all want…

Is it really about his work, or is it about glorifying Peterson himself?

For other's it may be, but I was responding to a blatant miscategorization which was attacking his identity, not his work. And this is just how I write.

If dissing someone is allowed then why isn't praising them? And praising them well?

Because I exaggerated?

But did I?

He continues to help millions of people. Can't say that about many people.

Regarding his work/words: He's right about the biological differences between men and women. He's right about social hierarchies and power structures being inevitable. He's right about the government's overreach on speech being dangerous. He's right about proper discourse on any matter being uncomfortable. He's right about the value of honesty and integrity. He's right about ways to piece your life and yourself back together.

And by right I don't mean binary true or false, because that isn't how science works. By right, I mean the most accurate knowledge we currently have on the topic that could be usefully applied to a problem at hand compared to other less accurate knowledge that is already being applied to problems at hand. Seeing this is why he stood up, and many stood up with him.

You can't be a quack and help so many people or be right about so many things. And at the end of the day he's just a lecturer that's really really good at his job -- at engaging his students and sharing the wealth of knowledge that already exists. And yes, using that knowledge to point out why you are wrong does make him offensive to a lot of people. You don't have to be one of them. And yes, he has turned activist. You don't have to turn into one, by why not? But if you have, then why against?

He isn't anti-scientific. He just isn't. That's a blatantly false claim.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#232

I highly recommend reading Matthew Walker‘s Why We Sleep [0] where stuff like the above mentioned is summed up. Great read! [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963

Still waiting for an answer from Matthew Walker on his contrasting view from William Dement about Sleep Debt being unable to be paid back.

https://twitter.com/ElijahLynn/status/922599108950368256

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/5580588...

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#233

I think that the real answer is that we do not know the answer yet. It is likely that both aspects are correct to some degree, I'll explain my take as of now: There is a real cost to sleeping less or sleeping too much and that some will feel the impact more than others also depending on the environment they are in (e.g increased stress, etc). Depending on the combined variables in conjunction to lack of sleep, some m…

I bet it's much simpler than that. Just like oxytocin amount, being prone to cancer and everything else there is probably large genetic predisposition and response.

I bet the range range is enormous as to how sleep affects people.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, keep water by the bedside and drink some before falling asleep. However, the older I get, the less I drink, so I don't wake up every couple hours to pee. The moral of this story: don't get old.

this is true. my bladder wakes me up before most everything else, and it won't let me go back to sleep until it's addressed. I'd love to sleep 8-9 hours a night, but my kidneys have other plans for me. source: am old.

I know it's practically sacreligious, but if you drink coffee, you should stop.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having two kids was the worst. Twice as many, still a noob parent. Poor kids, poor mum and dad. I mean we were nice to them but always exhausted. Was lucky. Got some good advice. Listened to it. Kids and parents are more happy now. We now have more than three and it is still way less stressful.

What was the advice?

Until they are one year old they decide.

Around one year they can learn to sleep well.

Every parent that kids needs to learn to eat and drink from cups.

I also understood and enjoyed helping my oldest daughter learn to walk.

But for some reason it never occured to me that sleeping is something that many kids will need to learn.

The basic rules are simple.

Part 1: make sure the environment don't change while they are asleep

After a certain age:

- never let them fall asleep with a bottle

- or while you are singing or saying prayers

- or listening to music

- or watching tv

Do read stories, sing, play and try to make sure they are happy when they go to bed. Just make sure they are awake.

Basically they shouldn't fall asleep in a state they won't be in the next time they turn around furing sleep.

Kids after a certain age should fall asleep in their own bed and on their own.

Part 2:

Kids should not be afraid and cry themselves to sleep.

But if you just leave them alone in their bed they will.

Instead say some magic nice words that you decide, then walk out. Start a timer for one minute. Walk back in (even if the kid isn't crying) say the same words you said when you left. The rest of of the night until the kid fall asleep (i.e. not until the calm down) go back every 3rd minute, i.e. every 180 seconds, sharp. Use a timer. Say the same words.

The next day use 3 minutes first and 5 minutes the rest of the evening. Use a timer. Be consequent.

What you want to teach is you are going to be there for them either they cry or not.

Don't stop until after they are asleep. (I happily go back two times more and I don't care if it seems they are sleeping, if tjey open their eyes they'll close them just as fast, now convinced that you are still there.) If one stop going back when they calm down then they understand they'll have to cry to get attention.

Next day 5 and 7 minutes, then 7 and 9 etc. By now they are probably relaxing after a few minutes.

Except for my first who had already gotten a bad habit by the time I started teaching, the rest picked it up in 3 or 4 days. After that they'd enjoy going to bed.

Two more things;

- make sure somebody can hear them if they wake up in the night. Mostly because who wants their kid to be afraid, but a nive side effect is they learn that thet are not forgotten.

- do sleep training on good days (not when new teeths are arriving or while they have the cold)

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#237
post #105
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

Could very well be that you're just leveraging your circadian rhythm coupled with the appropriate sleep stages cycled.

You're likely waking at the optimal time of completion of a complete sleep cycle. That doesn't necessarily mean you're getting enough sleep overall.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the advice?

Until they are one year old they decide. Around one year they can learn to sleep well. Every parent that kids needs to learn to eat and drink from cups. I also understood and enjoyed helping my oldest daughter learn to walk. But for some reason it never occured to me that sleeping is something that many kids will need to learn. The basic rules are simple. Part 1: make sure the environment don't change while they are…

> Kids should not be afraid and cry themselves to sleep.

> But if you just leave them alone in their bed they will.

Worked for us 3x. Did it soon after they no longer physically needed to eat in the night, which is a lot earlier than you'd think. Did it around 3 months IIRC. Two or three bad nights with each one (listening to the crying is no fun and I get why people cave) and pretty much smooth sailing from there on.

We did do some prep by deliberately delaying our responses to their crying, especially at night time, weeks earlier, and stretching out that delay as weeks went on, to break the "I cry, they show up seconds later, spazzing out and showering me with attention" expectation. We might have had to prep by pushing them to one nighttime feeding too, but they'd done that on their own by then anyway—then again, delaying responses helps with that since you're not rushing in there every time they whimper, so that may have been why that part happened "naturally".

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#239
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

i dont think a kindle counts as artificial light, could be wrong though.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will wake up promptly at 4am. A possible explanation is that you've trained your body to wake at that time -- but it isn't necessarily enough/appropriate sleep.

Wouldn't there be feelings of tiredness or some kind of exhaustion? I generally feel well rested and chipper all day. Without those feelings of tiredness, how would you know if it's training or your actual internal clock working correctly?

You might very well be a short sleeper.
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