Live data from Hacker News

UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

debugandrelease.blogspot.com

231–240 of 290 posts

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People aren't idiots. They don't do this work for no reason. Citation absolutely needed. In my experience people are frequently idiots, and work gets done for no reason after someone with authority is convinced that it's a good idea by someone aching to do that sort of work. If it happens in so many other cases, it does happen in UI/UX as well.

I'll concede "most people are of average idiocy" and cite core principles of statistics and the meanings of average and most. But yes, you're right, happens all the time. Less so with most of the large scale more popular redesigns people tend to think of when writing articles like this about tools they actually use; the team at Atlassian, for example, is not made of idiots, neither at Slack, Google, Twitter, or other…

I absolutely love your comment on statistics.

But on the notion that large companies specifically don't have hit or miss design or redesigns: I'd argue there's more than enough evidence to the contrary. And, personally, I find Atlassian products to be a very good example of that.

Note: In this regard, I focus mainly on Don Norman's view on "design", which is largely orthogonal to aesthetics. It's cool for software to look nice. But if it's laid out in a non-intuitive way or doesn't prevent (or even provokes) user errors, it's not good design, period.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#232

Great UI is extremely valuable. The challenge is that one of the qualities of a great UI is that it's stable. The UI is the interface between your app and the customer. It's like an API. No one arbitrarily changes APIs and expects it to go well. But, perhaps because people are slightly more adaptable than code, UI gets changed without warning or choice all the time. This is a unilateral break in the implicit contract…

> The UI is the interface between your app and the customer. It's like an API. No one arbitrarily changes APIs

Love it . I’m stealing this one.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#233
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an iPhone, so Apple Maps is right there as an alternative (and better, since it's more integrated into things like the Contacts app and auto-recognized addresses). I find its design to be much calmer and smoother, which makes me happier. And it doesn't keep asking me to login to the Googleverse... There are many reasons I don't use Facebook, most of which are enumerated in countless HN posts, but a big reason…

With all respect, people over age 50 are not the target demographic for general purpose mass market products. Even simple things like supporting large fonts or color contrast for weaker eyes is beyond the capability of tech giants (in large part because of the tyranny of pixel perfect UI designers over simple auto-flow/layout algorithms

No disrespect taken. Thanks for raising this point — one that I’m often frustrated by. (Yes, I’m over 50.) I’ve resorted to using Safari’s Reader mode on the vast majority of the sites I visit because the respective designer’s idea of type face, size, and contrast is so unreadable to me. Obviously this doesn’t work for interactive sites like maps, though.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree. Given the opportunity, programmers will often work without regard to business needs. For example, rewriting an old codebase using their favourite new stack.

Totally agree, and for managers who have programmers on staff they will keep making up features without thinking about whether it is a good idea. You start getting "features" crammed in because they have to pay the programmers to do _something_.

This is such a real thing that happens, yep.

It's really hard to get people together to make good software. I think that's something everyone can agree on.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is damn near amazing how fast old Gmail is did you know that you can still use it? It uses like a mb of ram and loads instantly.

How do you use the old Gmail? I hate, hate, hate the new one.

They hide it behind this strange URL

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/1pq68r75kzvdr/

You should see a banner with an option to 'set basic HTML as default view' across the top.

It's great. You see all the information - nothing hidden behind icons, and page loads between screens actually take less time than with a SPA.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#236
post #84

> To preface the article, I primarily work on, and prefer, back-end code. I've been involved in both web and software development for over 4 years now Cool, cool. To preface this comment, I'm a user experience designer, and I've been doing web software development and design for over 20 years. In reality, your conjecture turns out to be largely untrue. Visual design quality does have an impact. Main principle you wan…

As a user, 9/10 if I notice the UI has changed, it's because I'm unhappy and feeling encumbered or lost. It's very rare that a redesign had me saying, "Oh wow, that's so much better!" So many UI fads have set usability back but get repeated with most redesigns... hamburger menus, login forms that hide password fields until you've entered the username, ultra minimal forms that leave the user guessing what is interacti…

Note that there sadly also is a very strong effect that also can "ruin" (in principle) good redesigns for existing users: When all else fails (i.e. you are not able to guide your design by existing metaphors etc.), humans learn by repetition. That's why consistency with other products is usually not a bad idea: Search bars are usually to the top right, so when you put yours there, a new user will know where to look.

OTOH, this also means that for a user who has used your product for ten years, the fact that your search bar is, in fact, not in the top right, doesn't matter -- because they have learned where it is. If you move it, they will be upset, even if the new design might objectively be more intuitive (as in: new users have less trouble with it).

This effect can make it rather hard at times to judge if a redesign of a product you've used for a long time is in fact as bad as you believe it to be.

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#238
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you read the article? Please don’t do this. > Maybe you should try to understand Or this. Reminder: be civil, don’t be snarky. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Come on, literally the second paragraph of the article addresses exactly the OP's point. I also wasn't being snarky, I was applying the OP's exact argument to his own critique of the article. I'm fine with sensible moderation, but holding up a mirror on a bad comment isn't an uncivil or snarky reply.

HN guidelines specifically say:

> Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

Your first paragraph is just as strong with its opening sentence (“Did you read the article?”) removed.

The guidelines also say:

> Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face.

The final sentence of your last paragraph could have been phrased: “The point the article is trying to convey is that perhaps the pendulum on UI redesign has swung a little too far one way.”

I get that you were mocking the “try to understand” from the parent comment, but your comment would have been stronger by not doing so.

> holding up a mirror on a bad comment isn't an uncivil or snarky reply.

The bulk of your comment is polite and civil, but the opening and concluding sentences are attacking the the commenter, not the comment.

($0.02. Just trying to keep things polite around here.)

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#239
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redesigns tend to happen because someone in management decides they want to remake the UI in a way that appeals to them, whether or not it makes sense to anyone else. The MS ribbon was a classic redesign. It broke the standard menu metaphor and crashed productivity for no good reason. Flat design was in a similar league, but not quite as bad. Is that a button or a text element? How can anyone tell? Refinement is a mu…

I am guessing that only Office power users hated the MS ribbon. I loved it, it's do much easier to find stuff if you already don't know where it is. Great design for the casual Wordster.

There are two interesting factors to the Office Ribbon and its clones.

1) You can absolutely botch it. A good example of that is Sibelius: Their Ribbon does not make any sense at all (and is in multiple instances literally a waste of space). Personally, I find the ribbon design on MS Office to be much better, though; MS has clearly put much thought and experimentation (i.e. many studies) into the concept.

2) What I find to be extremely interesting: For MS Office, the ribbon introduced better shortcuts. Since Office products are totally overloaded with functionality, the parts you don't use often were usually left behind in terms of useful shortcuts. With the Ribbon, these functionalities are usually accessible via a Spacemacs-Style mnemonic keypresses. If you use a specific functionality over and over, it's now much easier to remember a not-so-bad way to trigger it from the keyboard.

On another note:

I also find the "new" formatting context menu that pops up in MS Word whenever you select some text to be a very clever idea. It remembers me much of an old Xerox demo[1][2] that was done with a mouse and a trackball simultaneously (featuring a palette you could place around where you were currently making changes with the mouse). I'm convinced that to this day, there's a lot of ignored potential in that concept.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTFcItyE9w [2]: https://www.billbuxton.com/TGtaxonomy.html

Re: UI redesigns are mostly a waste of time

#240
post #84

> To preface the article, I primarily work on, and prefer, back-end code. I've been involved in both web and software development for over 4 years now Cool, cool. To preface this comment, I'm a user experience designer, and I've been doing web software development and design for over 20 years. In reality, your conjecture turns out to be largely untrue. Visual design quality does have an impact. Main principle you wan…

As a user, 9/10 if I notice the UI has changed, it's because I'm unhappy and feeling encumbered or lost. It's very rare that a redesign had me saying, "Oh wow, that's so much better!" So many UI fads have set usability back but get repeated with most redesigns... hamburger menus, login forms that hide password fields until you've entered the username, ultra minimal forms that leave the user guessing what is interacti…

> login forms that hide password fields until you've entered the username

I've been lead to believe that this is for websites that support authentication by multiple methods. If you submit your email address first they can look it up and see that you auth with SAML, or log you in through Google, or if you login with a password they can then render that form for you.

Post reply on HN