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Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

citylab.com

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Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#231

Post by vladvasiliu »

bobthepanda wrote: post #223
entity345 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. There is feedback: usage stats. Public transport is already heavily subsidised in most European cities. One of the aim is to cut car use, not to specifically balance the books of just public transports. The issue is thus to avoid using taxpayers' money to finance lines that run mostly empty.

If people are driving in, is cost what’s stopping them? At least in the US public transport riders have lower incomes than those who do not.

Probably not. However, having free public transportation will actually reduce operating costs: no need to maintain all the infrastructure (and people) needed for selling and checking transit passes.

This can improve passenger flow (I live in Paris, and turnstyles are a major pain during rush hour) and passenger convenience.

In the case of Paris, traffic is positively horrible, and parking is even worse of a joke. Yet there are people who still prefer driving and who don't even come from the suburbs (where public transit may be somewhat lacking). The reason is clearly one of convenience which means that this should be taken into account by the authorities if they really want people to drive less (which is the official policy here).

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#233

Post by bobthepanda »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #231
bobthepanda wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are driving in, is cost what’s stopping them? At least in the US public transport riders have lower incomes than those who do not.

Probably not. However, having free public transportation will actually reduce operating costs: no need to maintain all the infrastructure (and people) needed for selling and checking transit passes. This can improve passenger flow (I live in Paris, and turnstyles are a major pain during rush hour) and passenger convenience. In the case of Paris, traffic is positively horrible, and parking is even worse of a joke. Yet…

I agree that passenger convenience is extremely important. Part of passenger convenience is the ability to be able to use the train for its base purpose, to get on the vehicle that gets you from A to B.

My concern is that free transit would lead to an insatiable amount of travel demand, which we already see with free roads that magically fill up the moment expansions open. A free train is useless if you can't board it. And even with Paris's ambitious plans to expand transit there probably wouldn't be enough capacity, and even that new capacity is only scheduled to come online in a few years' time, since you can't increase buses and trains available instantly.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#234

Post by MrTonyD »

so33 wrote: post #131
masonic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

makes 2 billion a year on public transportation No, they make money on real estate to offset their losses on transit.

Actually, no. The MTR’s farebox recovery is over 100%. They make a profit on fares and make even more money on real estate.

I remember reading that they were able to cover all the costs because of accounting categorizations that they could consider only because they had the real estate. But I don't really know - that's just what some article was saying.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#235

Post by closeparen »

alehander42 wrote: post #142
closeparen wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only takes one person reeking of urine to make a whole train car a vile place to spend any time. So yes.

if there are so many people with problems that this happens often, your city has much more important problems to solve(helping those people) than "nice transit" (my city & most cities have to do this as well tho .. i am probably hypocritical in this)

We are not going to solve the problem of democratic governance by a majority-homeowner electorate. To the extent that a homeowner electorate would ever allow homelessness to be solved:

- Can't solve homelessness without mass affordability.

- Can't have mass affordability without density.

- Can't have density when voters are worried about congestion and parking impacts of development.

- Can't stop worrying about congestion and parking impacts of development when you drive everywhere.

- Won't stop driving everywhere until transit is attractive.

Homelesness and repulsive transit are a feedback loop. We have to break it somewhere. Fare enforcement is a lever we actually have.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#236

Post by vladvasiliu »

bobthepanda wrote: post #233
vladvasiliu wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. However, having free public transportation will actually reduce operating costs: no need to maintain all the infrastructure (and people) needed for selling and checking transit passes. This can improve passenger flow (I live in Paris, and turnstyles are a major pain during rush hour) and passenger convenience. In the case of Paris, traffic is positively horrible, and parking is even worse of a joke. Yet…

I agree that passenger convenience is extremely important. Part of passenger convenience is the ability to be able to use the train for its base purpose, to get on the vehicle that gets you from A to B. My concern is that free transit would lead to an insatiable amount of travel demand, which we already see with free roads that magically fill up the moment expansions open. A free train is useless if you can't board i…

It's true that new capacity generates new demand, however I think there are some limits. When the monthly pass pricing became flat, it was way cheaper for people living far in the suburbs to come to Paris proper. I don't have any numbers, but I don't have the impression that people started coming in in much greater numbers.

In the case of Paris, public transit is already insufficient during peak times. I'm sure most people who don't already take it have reasons other than the price, meaning that if it were free there wouldn't be a significant rise in traffic.

However, I think that all the money spent on the ticketing system could help improve the general reliability which in turn would help provide more capacity. This would probable incite more people to take public transport which could help the transport authority obtain more funding from the region government.

As in Paris the transport authority is already heavily subsidized, I think it would be interesting to have to some numbers on how much tickets bring in vs how much the whole ticketing infrastructure costs.

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