Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent • Hacker News Board

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#231

Post by sftwds » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:59 AM UTC

sonicdream wrote: post #200

hollasch wrote: post #185

My basic objection to the "opt-out" scheme is that my browser is effectively acting as a man-in-the-middle agent, confusing both the reader and the author, and co-opting any existing compensation or donation procedure. For example, consider http://www.vim.org , which hosts the text editor Vim. The author, Bram Moolenaar, makes this editor freely-available, and asks that any donations be directed to ICCF Holand, a cha…

Bad example. The purpose of the BAT token is for ads and tipping, not for donations. Hence the name, Basic Attention Token.

What is the difference between a “tip” and a “donation”?

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#232

Post by klyrs » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:15 AM UTC

brandnewlow wrote: post #111

908087 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the implication here that "fellow nerds" should always be given the benefit of the doubt for some reason? I've seen some "very nerdy" people engage in some "incredibly selfish and shady" activities, so I can't help but laugh at that idea.

Not specifically. But yes, fellow people should be given the benefit of the doubt in my opinion. I was asking if Brave had done something to merit not getting that.

Fellow people? Sure.

A company collecting charitable donations? No, that deserves immediate scrutiny. Your business model is beyond sketchy. You're approaching this with an affronted "but we're all nerds here!"

It doesn't matter if you're a nerd working for a crook, a crook claiming to be a nerd, or just a crooked nerd. But the business model has a smell and if you don't recognize it then you're merely complicit.

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#233

Post by jimktrains2 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

chowells wrote: post #49

jimktrains2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reload never seems to work for me. I give up after 1 or 2 reload tries, though. > it's clear that they just don't want people to use their web browser on mobile devices. Which is clearly user hostile. Reddit does a similar thing whwre they artificially delay showing thebpage and then block a quarter of it with a banner asking you to use the mobile app.

Oh, not the button it offers to try again. That button is junk. Hit reload on your browser. That works every time, at least in my experience.

Yes, whats what I meant, ctrl+r

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#234

Post by klyrs » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #210

brandnewlow wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Brave on the business team. This is helpful feedback. Brave is a startup with a small team earnestly building a new thing that combines a browser with a tipping system, with creator tools, with ad blocking... it's ambitious! As it's a new thing, describing it can be messy sometimes. We're always working to make our language better and clearer though. Thank you for letting us know it fell short for you. To a…

the statements from Brave people on this thread seem reasonable ; many inflammatory comments here do not seem reasonable

Sure, Brave's PR approach seems reasonable: act like you're confused and listening, but don't respond to anything resembling criticism.

But acting dumb and carrying on is an inflammatory action, when your actions are ethically bankrupt -- an inflamed response is warranted and quite reasonable in this situation.

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#235

Post by joshuamorton » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:23 AM UTC

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so[1], and it looks like eichs tune hasn't changed much[2].

It's like, very obvious that this would be an issue.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15723512

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15735214

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#236

Post by cyphar » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:25 AM UTC

brandnewlow wrote: post #89

egypturnash wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I suspect this is part of their overall revenue model.

Honest question: Why do you suspect that? (I work at Brave. We're all very, very nerdy here. It'd be helpful to understand why a fellow nerd suspects we're up to no good.)

All of the other comments have described (much better than I can) why this is likely some kind of fraud (and definitely unethical).

I wanted to comment on the "fellow nerd" trope -- I don't see why it matters that you (or the majority of Brave) are nerdy. That doesn't mean you are somehow incapable of acting unethically or committing fraud. Many of our "fellow nerds" have broken the law. It doesn't diminish their intelligence, but it does reflect on their morality.

It's a non-sequitur.

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#237

Post by mthoms » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #191

dessant wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that Brave's current model actively hurts small creators that would otherwise get some of that money sooner on the donation services they have signed up for, without waiting for Brave's $100 withdrawal threshold to be reached, if it ever does. I'd be surprised if this will be deemed legal, once more people will find out that there is a company collecting donations in their name and without their cons…

As far as I know none of my fans have even heard of Brave, so they're probably giving me money via Patreon or the occasional commission (and I should probably make the Paypal tip jar a bit more prominent, as well as maybe setting up Ko-fi or its ilk someday). But if Brave finds money to start a serious publicity campaign and get new users then I can definitely see that being a problem. Needs a lot better way for them…

Just to clarify, a content creator just needs to register with Brave once and all further contact will go through whichever channel they choose.

I suppose the presumption is, once (if) Brave reaches critical mass, or gets enough press, there won't be a monetizing content creator on the web who isn't aware of it.

My apologies if you know this already. It's just that the "whois" email is not really telling the full story. Unfortunately, this is the best (only?) option they've got to try and contact the creator at this point.

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#238

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 5:37 AM UTC

dictum wrote: post #94

jonny_eh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This must be against some kind of law, I'm not sure which though.

IA-definitely-NAL, but I can't see a way that opt-out can be legal here. Maybe the legal defense applies the same logic of consent in third-party tracking (third-party provides the service in behalf of the first-party, to whose terms you agreed by using its service. Even that may clash with laws like GDPR): Brave, third-party, is providing a service to the first-party – the browser's user – who contracted it as a way…

Well, how about this...

I'll send you $20, if you agree to try to get $15 to the XKCD guy somehow.

If you accept this deal, have you broken the law?

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#239

Post by mthoms » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 5:56 AM UTC

britch wrote: post #117

brandnewlow wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why do you suspect that? (I work at Brave. We're all very, very nerdy here. It'd be helpful to understand why a fellow nerd suspects we're up to no good.)

You're taking money for people without a good way of getting it to them (or ensuring that they want the money at all). My friend Mark had an accident and I think he needs help paying for it. Would you give me some money to help Mark pay for his medical bills? Thank you, I'll just put it in my bank account until Mark asks me for the it. Trust me, I'm trying very hard to let Mark know I have money for him. I'm going to…

>Where's the money now? I guess it's still in my bank account. No you can't have it back.

Except the money goes back to the Brave user pool and ends up in the hands of creators who have opted to participate. Brave's hope is that every content creator will eventually register to collect what's theirs. Their business model depends on it.

Before judging, please read their materials (and examine their pedigree). It's pretty clear they are thinking much, much bigger than what you're accusing them of. This a Google level play, not some two-bit micro-transaction scam (if anything, it's a little bit too ambitious).

This all goes without even mentioning the huge privacy gains to be had for end users if their model works. I encourage you to have a look into that as well if it's a topic you're interested in.

Time will tell if they succeed or fail. But if they fail, at least they'll do so "while daring greatly".

Re: Brave taking cryptocurrency donations “for me” without my consent

#240

Post by oh_sigh » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #203

pushcx wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/1076221401353207808 Your UI really looks like Tom Scott has signed up to receive donations through you, not like you've scraped his photo and name off twitter and written a fundraising plea with zero mention that he's never heard of you and that you won't even try to contact him until $100 accumulates and then only half-assedly. For most of us this is our first exposure to your m…

That doesn't just look like a scam. That is a scam. You can't just go collecting for causes without being empowered to do so. It's the same as people that go door to door collecting money for some charity when they are actually just going to spend it on their own stuff.

The 'spend it on their own stuff' is the illegal part, not the going door to door collecting money part.

You most certainly can go door to door and solicit donations to a charity you have nothing to do with...as long as you actually fulfill the contract.