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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#231

Post by iso1337 »

cortesoft wrote: post #156
iso1337 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are externalities, but perhaps the question to ask is, are the externalities of scooters less than those of cars when solving the last mile problem in transportation? Cars and drivers, in my view, push MUCH more externalities onto everyone else (and let's not limit ourselves to thinking locally, all that CO2 we emit from driving disproportionately affects those in the third world and those yet unborn).

Yes, those are certainly good conversations to have. I agree we need to do a better job of handling the externalities created by cars. I don't think we should be using the argument of 'well, the externalities for cars are worse' when deciding how to deal with the externalities of scooters, though. By that argument, we only have to ever make sure our externalities are better than the very worst offender in order to be…

Thanks for the reply. I'm not arguing that scooters are beyond reproach. I'm for development of scooter regulation in a way such that we as a society can harness the benefits from it. Being against them just because they don't work in the current regulatory + road system setup in my mind is at risk of forgoing potential massive benefits for us as a society.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#232

Post by dilap »

stingrae wrote: post #189
dilap wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF didn't want to make BART feel bad by providing actual competent transit options, so we got the joke that is Skip/Scoot. Seriously, this city has convinced me democracy doesn't work. Maybe China should regime change us. Edit: stingrae points lack of availability may be the City's fault, rather than Skip/Scoot. No sé -- but for sure the city's intervention took a useful, environmentally friendly transit option and m…

Out of curiosity, what is your issue with skip/scoot? All the services seems to be similar to me?

I haven't tried 'em in a bit, so to be fair, maybe it's better now.

But last time I tried:

Scooter coverage was too sparse to be useful.

If you did try to chase down one of the sparsely scattered scooters, usually it would be missing. No way to make it play a sound to help locate it, no way to report it was missing.

Gave up and just kept skating everywhere. Whereas I found Lime and Bird to be a practical alternative mode of transport, before they got kicked out.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#233

Post by stingrae »

justinator wrote: post #199
Thrymr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logistics can be challenging, though, especially in an urban area. You need a place to keep and lock up your bike everywhere you go, and [for many people] a way to transport your bike on public transit.

Bike racks, and bike racks?

In San Francisco, I wouldn’t trust leaving my bike at a bike rack. That’s why the bike/scooter shares are so useful. Otherwise I would ride my personal bike everywhere.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#234

Post by xur17 »

trhway wrote: post #32
gibolt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scooters are definitively vehicles. What would governments do if people just started parking bikes and scooters in free full-size car parking spaces :)

Scooters aren't vehicles licensed for public roads. So it will probably still be littering, of public roads and parking spaces this time.

But you're supposed to ride them in the roads in most cities.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#235

Post by xur17 »

matchbok wrote: post #26
alasdair_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why are cars allowed to litter the public roads and park all over the place, taking up a massive amount of space with mostly empty seats and driven around less than 10% of the time? Because car owners pay extra in taxes, specifically to cover the additional costs to society.

The taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to the wasted space, pollution, and clutter.

The taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to just the road costs alone (ignoring the other societal downsides).

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#236

Post by anonytrary »

marcell wrote: post #9
umvi wrote: post #3

Remind me again why they are allowed to litter all the public sidewalks and street corners with their scooters? Regulation hasn't caught up yet?

Because people derive value from the service. It's faster than walking, more convenient than an Uber, and doesn't require a car. Let's leave the "get off my lawn" comments off HN.

> Let's leave the "get off my lawn" comments off HN.

I like the Bird idea, but why should people who find them a nuisance not be able to voice their opinions here? They are literally being thrown on people's lawns. I think those companies have some responsibility to develop spaced waypoints with the city which act as hubs for birds. Private businesses should be allowed to register their space as a hub for a payment by the Bird company.

The different users would be: Hub owners (colleges, cities, private homes, businesses), riders, chargers. Hub owners and chargers would get paid to host hubs and charge birds, respectively. The riders would pay for use between hubs.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#237

Post by bradlys »

bsder wrote: post #214
Reedx wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but isn't that also the case for people in cars? They get head injuries in car crashes that may have been prevented by wearing a helmet. As for helmet laws, they have unintended consequences, such as fewer people riding bikes. Resulting in more cars/pollution and less exercise, less healthy population.

> Right, but isn't that also the case for people in cars? They get head injuries in car crashes that may have been prevented by wearing a helmet. A car driver has insurance to some level--a bicyclist or scooter user probably doesn't. The issue is that in the US, we don't have universal healthcare which would make this discussion moot.

Incorrect - universal healthcare would make this discussion even more relevant. As we're all going to be paying for his head injury rather than whoever decides to go with that particular company or insurer.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#238

Post by notable_user »

kasey_junk wrote: post #160
bb2018 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not be more upset that people who have stated progressive goals such as cutting down on fuel and providing cheap public transportation are against these. They are an absolutely great alternative that makes these goals possible without having to completely overhaul city designs. The only externality really seems to be they are parked in random places - but I don't see how that is any different than cars parked…

They are fairly commonly left in ways that make it difficult for pedestrians in wheel chairs/walkers/blind.

It’d be fairly easy to designate a spot on every block for scooter/bike/etc parking. Much easier and space efficient than creating parking spaces.

Here’s an example that Santa Monica is trying: https://www.10news.com/news/santa-monica-creates-parking-spa...

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#239

Post by xur17 »

timack wrote: post #229
qudat wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> litter all the public sidewalks Is it really that big of a nuisance? You literally walk around them, I don't see the issue. You should give them a ride one day to "see what all the fuss is about." They really are an incredible idea and allowing them to be "parked" anywhere is one of its main appeals.

> You literally walk around them, I don't see the issue. It's not an issue for most people but I live up the road from an old folks home and often see the residents heading to the shops in their mobility scooters. If there's a dumped lime scooter blocking the footpath it completely stops them from using the footpath until someone moves it out of the way for them.

At least in the city I am in this seems to becoming less and less of an issue (despite there being more and more scooters) as people get used to them, and learn to properly park them.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#240

Post by s0rce »

Uehreka wrote: post #225
anonytrary wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Baltimore used to have a bike share, but I've heard it's being shut down and even when it was up they had a hard time keeping bikes in all the stalls. Sorry if these are stupid questions, but isn't this a problem with Bird? I see random birds all over the place. Can someone explain why bikes can't be left around randomly like a bird can?

Not a stupid question! The bikes in the Baltimore bike share (and I think also the NYC bike share) had electric motors that would work with the rider to make peddling easier. Thus they had to be left in charging “yokes” when you were done with them. As for why a non-powered bike couldn’t just be left around, here are a few thoughts: - As some people have mentioned, bikes are just bigger, and take up way more sidewalk…

Dockless bike share is a thing. They had them all over the East SF bay area for a while but a contract with the existing docked bikes got rid of them in most of the areas. I think they still have them in SF. As you guessed, many people hate them but honestly, parked cars take 100x the space, just allocate some parking spaces to bikes, problem solved.
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