Why Aren't There C Conferences? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#231

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #87

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/tree/master/src/runtime

CLOC tells me there's 28391 lines of C and 426525 lines of Lisp in there. Also remember that Lisp has, on average, higher code density than C thanks to advanced macro usage. Pointing to C code in that repository and saying SBCL is implemented in C is like pointing to https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/binary-distribution... and saying that SBCL is implemented in Bash.

Don't forget that much more of the code is #if'd for different architectures compared to lisp.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#232

Post by steveklabnik » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

nineteen999 wrote: post #227

steveklabnik wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, I don’t mean to imply chucklefish is AAA. I don’t have a ton of info about SEED, pretty much https://twitter.com/gwihlidal/status/1065036212220698624 says > Halcyon itself is still largely C++, but a lot of data pipelines and servers are written with rust, and quite a few rendering experiments, as well. Enough pieces are being developed to build up enough critical mass for 3D, though! and https://twitter.com…

That's great to see even if it's still early days. Thank you also for being a great proponent for the Rust community, your thoughtful and considered answers here have helped convince me to look into Rust more over the longer term, whereas the foam-at-the-mouth types completely send me in the other direction.

You're quite welcome, and thanks for the thanks.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#233

Post by sytse » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

While you're at it maybe also consider a packaging system like npm/rubygems/etc.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#234

Post by sbov » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #19

Because though there might be building trades conferences, there are no hammer conferences. Oh, there will be tool vendors at the building trades conferences, there might be sessions on "Efficient Hammering Techniques Using Machine Learning", but there are no conferences about hammers. Don't forget about the blacksmith conference next week, they'll have hammer vendors, too. I dunno, a Ruby conference kinda makes sens…

I wish people would stop comparing programming languages to Hammers. It's a meaningless meme. Yes, they are tools, but comparing them to Hammers is 100% ridiculous.

A language is not a hammer. It is a tool. You know what else are tools? Chainsaws, databases, lasers, and tunnel boring machines that cost tens of millions of dollars.

There are plenty of conferences about tools.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#235

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #218

phoe-krk wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, all of us execute stuff on kernels that are written in either C or C++ or C# or Objective-C, utilizing runtimes that are written in the same languages and calling APIs that are defined by the C application binary interface. That family of languages isn't going anywhere and choosing C instead of raw assembly is often chosen out of practical reasons, such as code maintainability. Still, I find it hard to put an e…

I said "implemented" in C. I'd argue that the runtime == the implementation.

The runtime for sbcl is just the garbage collector and parts of the OS interface. It's not like the JVM (or e.g. GNU clisp) where the runtime is interpreting code.

The OS interface for any program that is targeted at *nix is likely to be written at least partly in C, because POSIX is very hostile to non-C languages, which leaves us with the garbage collector.

If the GC's implementation language is the most important thing for an implementation then every language implemented mostly in C++, but using bdwgc for garbage collection is actually implemented in C and assembly.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#236

Post by tom_mellior » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

Besides CppCon there is also the yearly ACCU conference: https://conference.accu.org/

Yes, that too is C and C++, but combining them into one conference just makes sense. It's good if each community knows what's new in the other one.

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#237

Post by jcelerier » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #166

stochastic_monk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, the [[maybe_unused]] and similar annotations in C++17 grew out of gcc builtins.

Of course, C++ is much more aggressive in stealing popular features from the community, especially Boost.

Boost was created as a place to beta-test future C++ features. Its whole point is to move stuff from boost:: to std::

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#238

Post by type0 » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:26 PM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #133

spydum wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point but HammerFest 2019 sounds like a freaking blast. I think there is an underserved market there.

Sëë yä thërë düdë! http://www.hammerfest.co.uk/

Sure, C u there!

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#239

Post by glitchc » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #214

mikestew wrote: post #19

Because though there might be building trades conferences, there are no hammer conferences. Oh, there will be tool vendors at the building trades conferences, there might be sessions on "Efficient Hammering Techniques Using Machine Learning", but there are no conferences about hammers. Don't forget about the blacksmith conference next week, they'll have hammer vendors, too. I dunno, a Ruby conference kinda makes sens…

I agree. I'm mostly a C coder but I've been on the Rust train since pretty early and I remember being pretty confused when they started putting emphasis on the Rust branding with logos, the whole "rustacean" thing, conferences, forums etc... In hindsight I get it but originally there was a bit of a culture shock. I mean I don't wear C T-shirts and as far as I can tell there's not really a standard C logo either. Mayb…

C has always had a defacto logo:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5e/The_C_Program...

Re: Why Aren't There C Conferences?

#240

Post by klodolph » Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

antirez wrote: post #195

klodolph wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unsure what you mean by Google "destroying" newsgroups. Newsgroups were decentralized to begin with, the fact that Google purchased Deja News and then didn't... I don't know, turn it into a Reddit-equivalent or something doesn't surprise me. You can still use Google Groups as a Usenet gateway and there are still other Usenet gateways around, although the offerings are getting a bit more scarce and it's no longer…

Maybe "killed" is a strong word. My feeling is that when Google exposed that part of the internet to the web, it became interesting for spammers to target USENET much more than in the past, which was a very strong contributing factor for USENET to die. Moreover once no longer an "hidden gem" many felt exposed posting to USENET, now that it was trivially web accessible.

My feeling is that the web was becoming larger and more accessible every year, and that while Google probably did that more than anyone else, you could equally blame AOL for providing NNTP access to the general public in 1993, or Deja News for starting their archive work in 1995, or Google for their indexing work starting in 2001.

That's just assigning a name and face to economic forces, though. It's the underlying economics that killed Usenet—experts hang out there, so it’s valuable, so non-experts start hanging out there, until the experts leave because there are too many non-experts. This happens to every internet forum; Usenet was just older. Travel back in time and any randomly selected person on the internet was likely to be some kind of expert.