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Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manual for the original Nintendo Entertainment System said "Do not operate continuously for more than 15 minutes." Sometimes legal departments force them to include those recommendations in order to err on the side of "absurdly overcautious." And sometimes the recommendations are merely prudent! I'm not saying you can wait longer, just that installers may have a motivation to exaggerate.

But unlike an NES system, if your septic tank develops a problem you now have liquid and solid waste flooding your yard and home, and your toilets, sinks, and showers are useless until it's fixed.

I feel like the failure mode for electronics is "randomly catches on fire" which can be just as devastating, if not moreso. Nobody has ever died because their toilet backed up. Their house burning down in the middle of the night is a different story.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago (maybe 10) we started getting "waterless" urinals in the UK. I assume that was a materials improvement (extreme hydrophobic coatings?). They have an outlet pipe, but no inlet. That must save a lot of piping and water.

Not a materials improvement, but an improvement in the shape of the bowl, so mostly a direct result of better hydrodynamic and CAD modeling. Not only do they use less water, but they /smell better/ -- most of the "smell of urine" results from the pee being added to, and reacting with, water, so no water, no noticeable odour.

They are plastic though, whilst water flushed toilets, eg in pubs, are always (?) ceramic.

Seems that it could be retrofitted easily by replacing the trap if the materials aren't important.

I wonder if patent expiration is responsible for the apparent increase in use of similar systems.

Thanks for your correction.

https://www.waterless.com/how-do-waterless-urinals-work/

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#233
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because intelligent people can't vote for Trump, AfD, or Bolsonaro? In the case of the US (assuming you're American): do you actually think that half of our country is stupid ?

Actually, only about half the people vote, so it was 26-27% of voters https://mises.org/wire/26-percent-eligible-voters-voted-trum... Which I've always more associated with the Crazification Factor than outright stupidity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crazification_factor But it always helps to have Cipolla's Basic Laws of Human Stupidity bookmarked: https://qz.com/967554/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupi... 72…

I respect all the sourcing and data, and I'll read the second and third articles in detail later so thank you for that. Your name is "hindsightbias", however, and you're citing "Americans who thought invading Iraq was a great idea" as a sign of stupidity?

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#235
post #81

>> contained as many as 200 trillion rotavirus cells Journalists can't grasp that saying a rotavirus is a cell is like stretching a wrench to be a SUV? What kind of twisted education system can get somebody to become so proficient with words and so noob in basic science?

"200 trillion rotavirus cells," at least in other sources, is written as a direct quotation from Gates.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Composting toilets do not produce safe fertilizer. Worse, almost all the mainstream designs require handling the compost while the bacterial load is still very high, because the containers need emptying long before sufficient time to break down pathogens has passed. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC93126/

According to Jenkins that's not true: https://humanurehandbook.com/

The NIH study I linked to tested the bacterial load after 6 months of composting in almost 100 toilets. They found 64.2% of them had dangerous levels of coliform bacteria.

Jenkins study, on the other hand, does not even attempt to measure the bacterial levels of his toilets - he simply claims thermophilic composting of human waste creates safe humus. The NIH study shows that thermophilic composting is not the mechanism that breaks down bacteria in these toilets; bacterial load is lowered through desiccation, drying out.

So - Jenkins does not understand how the composting works in his own product, he has not actually tested the bacterial load, and he is financially benefiting from people thinking his product is safe.

You're welcome to think the NIH study is falsified; but I would bet my money on Jenkins being wrong here.

Here's his study on the safety of his product: https://humanurehandbook.com/downloads/humanure_sanitation_p...

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#237
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this was contrary to my city-dweller's understanding, so i did some quick wiki-reading and it seems like the reality is somewhere between you and GP's statement? i.e. they do biodegrade waste via anaerobic bacteria, but non-degradable sludge has to get pumped out every few years.

It depends on how the tank is setup and the drainage system it has. Septic tanks are not closed systems they are open and intended to provide an environment that can produce a bio-reactor while maintaining drainage through the soil. Many good systems don’t need to be drained other than every few decades in fact good systems would outlast the tank and the filtering substrate it’s built on so when the time comes you ne…

Also, some US states are encountering issues with bio contamination in their aquifers and as water issues become more prevalent (perennial droughts in some states shrinking aquifers making them less resilient to contamination; perennial flooding in others moving the water tables closer to septic tanks and making them more prone to contamination), the requirements to isolate septic tanks from local ecologies will only grow (ie, increasingly more counties will require to close them, watertight protect them, require them to be regularly pumped moving forward, and/or replace them with a connection to nearby sewage systems).

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Building this sort of infrastructure is a massive engineering task >It requires skilled engineers and labour Exactly, and there are no tricks around that are known to solve that, other than to engage in massive infrastructure projects. A very simple thing.

There are tricks around known to solve this, such as building intermediate solutions like what Gates proposes to do. When you have a serious issue in production that can be fixed with a global variable in 5 minutes or spending a day correctly planning and implementing a fix that routes the data correctly, what do you pick? I'd hope doing the first thing and replacing it with the second. It's that sort of decision, on…

Yes, the magic toilet took a possibly a decade to make, and I bet will never ever see real world deployment.

In the same time, most banal sewers and septic tanks take days to build.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what I'm saying is a outhouse /is/ a huge innovation to many places in Western Africa and India. It's largely a cultural problem like rampant littering or pollution. One guy digging an outhouse and shitting in it won't make any more difference than a single person recycling. But if enough people do it they will see a huge improvement in public health and infant mortality.

I'd argue that going from shitting in the woods to a well engineered and cheap toilet is a much more attractive step for most people than having them dig outhouses. It's like with the washing mashines - once electrification is there it's one of the first purchases since it's such a quality of life improvement, and this has happened for a majority of the world's population.

I just watched a segment on this (VICE, Vox, other?). In some places, the cultural taboo is cleaning the pit. So in parts of India, with a history of castes, the pits are made impracticably large, to that it never (rarely) needs to be emptied.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that going from shitting in the woods to a well engineered and cheap toilet is a much more attractive step for most people than having them dig outhouses. It's like with the washing mashines - once electrification is there it's one of the first purchases since it's such a quality of life improvement, and this has happened for a majority of the world's population.

I just watched a segment on this (VICE, Vox, other?). In some places, the cultural taboo is cleaning the pit. So in parts of India, with a history of castes, the pits are made impracticably large, to that it never (rarely) needs to be emptied.

The thing is, you don't need to empty it really. You can just fill in the rest with dirt and dig a new pit 10 meters away.
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