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Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

arstechnica.com

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Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#231

Post by anoncoward111 »

leetcrew wrote: post #230
anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

it seems that people who buy cars fall into two groups. the first group views a car as an appliance, and will generally buy the cheapest one that will get them where they need to go and haul their stuff around. you tend to see these people driving crossovers. the second group actually enjoys driving, and will seek to get the nicest car that fits in their budget. the minimum viable car and the nicest car you can affor…

The way I drive my beater car, I can assure you it's a ton of fun, but also probably a ton of danger for myself and maybe others :p

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#232

Post by ianai »

ghaff wrote: post #219
esotericn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is on-street parking generally restricted in suburbs in the US or something? It's confusing me that you refer to 'parking spaces', that's what I mean by restricted parking - generally anywhere outside of public transport range in the UK is free-for-all - you park at the side of the road. There are no 'spaces', aside from the physical restriction of the length of the road.

It can be, especially in the winter in areas that are prone to snow. Also a lot of "suburbs" don't consist of developments but are just houses along roads. In many cases, those roads don't have anywhere for cars to park.

The roads that you can parallel park at in the Southwest are the vast exception in my experience. If you did that just about anywhere in my town you’d be towed, as a nicer option for the authorities to choose.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#233

Post by moduspwnens14 »

Marsymars wrote: post #103
moduspwnens14 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My prior car was new and I later decided that the added expense of a new car did not justify it. My plan was to get a few-years old "A to B" used car (like a Corolla or something) when it started needing work. But I did change my mind and get a Model 3. * Autopilot is quite nice. I'd compare the experience to driving a car with cruise control as compared to one that doesn't have it. It's not the end of the world, but…

> * They're taking a risk with the interior of the car, with the lack of gauge cluster and spartan design. To me this looks like what happened when the software industry switched from "as many UI buttons and features as possible" in the '90s to the simplified, "overall user experience" focus we see in modern software. And I want to support that. I guess this is fine if you live in California, but a car that I can't o…

The car doesn't require touching the screen to operate it.

The nav / media controls do, but those can be voice operated, too. And a lot of the media controls work from the steering wheel knobs (play pause skip back etc.), also.

EDIT: And all Teslas can have their climate control turned on remotely by the app / API, and can be safely warmed up even in an enclosed space (since there are no fumes).

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#234

Post by Marsymars »

jjoonathan wrote: post #116
Marsymars wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for a cheap used car can't be $100/month. If you look at Kelley Blue Book or similar websites, they'll tell you that even super cheap cars like that 2005 Ford Focus will still cost you $300-400/month, all included. My personal econobox, which I've had for a bit over five years, has so far run around 0.17 cents per km, or $155/month, with around 12,000 km/yr. Fixed costs (insurance…

So you either won the car maintenance lottery or DIY'd it and disingenuously priced that at nothing. Good for you -- but not good for planning purposes.

No, neither of those? My per-km costs have been about 30% maintenance, which is pretty reasonable for a $10k econobox between 60k-120k km. I DIY the easy stuff like oil changes or tire rotations, but that bill includes several major maintenance items where I paid dealership labour rates. (shock/strut replacement, broken filler flapper, brake job, water pump replacement)

To be clear, the $155/m is for marginal costs, total marginal+fixed is $155+$75= $230/m.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#235

Post by Latteland »

cvbhhbgh wrote: post #205
leesec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how will you charge them for road trips, on Tesla's supercharging network? It takes time to build up the network.

The way Nissan did Also, car companies can get together and let their cars charge at each other’s dealers. Then lock out Teslas until TSLA agrees to join. Also, gas stations don’t make money selling gas (!!) but by selling candy [1]They couldn’t care less if they’re charging $60 to fill your car or 0.60. In fact, the longer it takes to charge your car unattended the more Andy you’ll buy [1] source: talk by Exxon-Mobi…

It's the other car dealers who will have to pay Tesla. T has the best chargers and all over the places you want them to be. T can already use all the other charging standards but they can't use Tesla chargers.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#236

Post by Angostura »

ericd wrote: post #224
Angostura wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am looking directly at the Oil and Big Auto companies when I say people have incentivized bloggers (aka "journalists") and paid online trolls to make him look like the bad guy They made him spout off about the Thailand-based diver being a paedophile? He bought this stuff on himself, you don't need a conspiracy to explain why the shine came off.

Who gives a shit, really? It’s the same sort of navel-gazing as caring about who is feuding with who in the celebrity world, amplified by a press that’s starving for new sources of clickbait. Yeah, he shouldn’t have done that, but in the final calculus, it’s incredibly insignificant compared to what he’s done and what he’s trying to do. If you try to run two companies and sleep for 4-5 hours a night for years and tak…

> Who gives a shit, really?

People who may be concerned that a CEO is trying to run two companies and sleep for 4-5 hours a night for years and take too much ambien and may have impaired judgement.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#237

Post by nationcrafting »

InTheArena wrote: post #7

This seems like a good breakdown - but it's also that Tesla (like SpaceX) runs really really close to the edge every time they do a product launch. How many people doubted SpaceX until the Falcon 9 flew? How many until the Falcon 9 landed on land? How many until Falcon 9 Heavy launched? How many are still doubting until Falcon 9 completes it's first manned mission? How many doubted Tesla until the Roadster shipped? T…

>You can see this in how ArianneSpace and ULA are trying to get to their next generation of vehicles (which won't be competitive in terms of re-usability)

Arianespace is a company run by bureaucrats. Incredibly frustrating environment. If you ever thought space was exciting, Arianespace will suck the life out of you. Even the areas where the top management know they need deep and impactful change, they'll bring in an outsider or two to bring "a new vision", then tell the outsider to keep working with all the old people who've built their mini-empire around methods that make no sense and keep them in a perpetual state of "irreplaceable ball and chain" on the company.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#238

Post by esotericn »

ianai wrote: post #232
ghaff wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be, especially in the winter in areas that are prone to snow. Also a lot of "suburbs" don't consist of developments but are just houses along roads. In many cases, those roads don't have anywhere for cars to park.

The roads that you can parallel park at in the Southwest are the vast exception in my experience. If you did that just about anywhere in my town you’d be towed, as a nicer option for the authorities to choose.

That's a shame!

We do have problems with inner city parking reducing roads to single lane in London. But in more rural areas, you can just leave your car anywhere. The concern is thef, vandalism, collision, not enforcement action.

Which is nullified for the most part with a crappy old car. :P

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#239

Post by cvbhhbgh »

QuantumGood wrote: post #213
cvbhhbgh wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Nissan did Also, car companies can get together and let their cars charge at each other’s dealers. Then lock out Teslas until TSLA agrees to join. Also, gas stations don’t make money selling gas (!!) but by selling candy [1]They couldn’t care less if they’re charging $60 to fill your car or 0.60. In fact, the longer it takes to charge your car unattended the more Andy you’ll buy [1] source: talk by Exxon-Mobi…

Profit is from cigarettes. Source: friend who buys gas stations.

Cigarettes, beer, candy. The profit it’s not on the gas. The ppl that flip out about the price and take it out on the stations are nuts

Also I don’t think the VP of one of the most maligned industries wanted to highlight that their profit is from selling the most maligned product :)

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#240

Post by cvbhhbgh »

Latteland wrote: post #235
cvbhhbgh wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Nissan did Also, car companies can get together and let their cars charge at each other’s dealers. Then lock out Teslas until TSLA agrees to join. Also, gas stations don’t make money selling gas (!!) but by selling candy [1]They couldn’t care less if they’re charging $60 to fill your car or 0.60. In fact, the longer it takes to charge your car unattended the more Andy you’ll buy [1] source: talk by Exxon-Mobi…

It's the other car dealers who will have to pay Tesla. T has the best chargers and all over the places you want them to be. T can already use all the other charging standards but they can't use Tesla chargers.

1. What’s so special about a Tesla charger? From an electrical POV nothing I can see (for companies like ABB a TSLA charger is a toy)

2. Car dealers are everywhere, especially in rural areas where e-cars are at the most disadvantage. They’re filled with mechanics that can quickly install a charging station.

The auto makers could roll out charging stations by themselves and get national coverage in months.

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