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Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

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Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#231
post #27

EDIT: downvoters, feel free to add your opinion, what seps we can take in 12 years to prevent climate change. I will gladly hear any opinion, especially if it is not as drastic as mine. 1. Drop coal and gas as energy sources immediately. Use renewable and nuclear energy as main power sources. Phase out nuclear after couple decades, when we hopefully can get all our energy needs from renewables. EDIT: forgot to add in…

1. yups. this needs a law.

2. why not radical? we have "good enough" plant-based replacements, and these will improve a lot when meat/dairy/eggs/leather simply becomes out-lawed. (needs a law too) why point one "stop immediatly" and point 2 being just reduce as a personal choice?

3. this i do not get. we have seen (again and again) that educating women greatly changes the reproductive rates. we can just do that! the one-child policy was disasterous for china, and while it may work in the dev'd world, it is the undev'd world where the reduction is badly needed and where the china-disaster is likely to repeat itself.

also, with 1 and 2 in place, we have prolly no need for the one-child policy. we'll have food and land plenty!

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. It's a mindset and a positive attitude that is constructive instead of spreading fear and doom, which does not yield any positive outcome at all.

> spreading fear and doom, which does not yield any positive outcome at all. That's not true. You are keeping saying that in several of your comments. There are many examples where things have changed because of Spreading fear and doom -> Politicians pass laws -> Industry is forced to react -> New technologies developed/deployed/... What you and some others here are proposing is basically to wait that things crash an…

No that's not what I propose and I also don't think that's what op proposed.

If you read the comments again you will see that all that was said is "you won't change the outcome this way", which means that political action alone is not enough.

Look at what's happening currently. All that fear and doom may lead to political decisions, but have they changed the carbon level in our atmosphere? You try to regulate something without looking at the overall outcome. If you want to do something, it's much better to do something positive, e.g. passing subsidies for renewable energy tech.

I think it doesn't make sense anymore to discuss this here. HN is not a good place to discuss different opinions which could be interpreted as being political. The people with the downvote power decide what's valid and what's not.

It's sad as otherwise we could have a fruitful discussion here.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#233

Indirect action idea (I wonder about it). Gather with other persons to invest a few shares in the major groups responsible for CO2 emissions. Not to have weight per se, but to be invited in shareholders assembly. And to be regularly loud about the topic of the group's responsibility. It's enough for 4, 5 distinct individuals to bring up related questions in the same assembly so that it bothers other investors. Bother…

lmao how is paying the companies responsible for this possibly a good idea?

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#234
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally accepted that if we don't zero our carbon emissions in 12 years we'll see 2 degrees warming minimum. Best case scenario is drought, heatwaves, forest fires, lose half the wildlife in the world, all the coral reefs, most of the fish, reduced crop yield, flooding, storms, sea level rise, and parts of the world are inhospitable, and the populations of those regions migrate north. BEST case. WORST case is…

I honestly think there is no way we can zero emissions in that time. But I'm hopeful the rate of technological progress can out pace our predictions. I'm also hopeful that we may one day find a means to reverse the problem through Geo engineering. People are far more motivate when the problem is already at the door. I just hope it's not too late by then.

I agree, on both counts. Rereading my post now it seems hopelessly pessimistic, and negative. I was mostly just trying to explain what we can expect to see as we approach 2 degrees of warming. We won't get to to zero carbon in the next 12 years and we won't avoid at least 1.5 degrees warming.

But I honestly DO believe that we WILL see a downward trend in he next 12 years. We won't hit zero but i would hope we'd hit pre 2000 levels. And I also believe that even though we're going to suffer, technology like carbon capture and geo engineering will play a role in the future. A recent study suggested painting rooves and footpaths white in hotter countries would have the equivalent cooling effect of taking every car off the road for 50 years. Measures like this will help. Fusion power works. ITER in France will generate 500Mw when operational in 2025, and pave the way for more fusion globally.

I think we can fix global warming, but its to our eternal shame that we're going to be fixing it rather than preventing it

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#235
I don't think we should, but here's some things that I think we're capable of:

* We could use atomic power, but not to replace oil: we irradiate or directly bomb the main global oil reserves so they are rendered unusable. Both Russia and the US have the power to do this many times over. That would mean World War III, probably. Which would also lower the CO2 levels.

* We can inoculate 10 or 20 people in densely populated areas with highly contagious virus, trigger a pandemic and see the numbers go down.

* We can simultaneously fund anti-vaccination groups, and decrease the funds for the public health organizations like the U.S. Food and Drug administration, worldwide. That could have the same effect, depending on how vicious the viruses we get are in the next 10 years. Super-flu would be fatal enough.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#236
> So what can we do so our children don't live in some ghastly hothouse world?

How about stopping with the apocalyptic hyperbole?

> The scientists have told us its our final chance....

And "scientists" have been telling us that for decades now.

> I feel like the young people need to take charge of the world because the older generations have had their chance and not fixed it.

Or the old have lived long enough not to buy into hysteria. Maybe the older people are just wiser, better educated and have more experience? Or we could let the young people, who know nothing about anything, take charge.

> What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

Nothing. No more than we can prevent solar flares, tornadoes or volcanic eruptions. We simply have to deal with it.

Climate change occurs naturally. It has existed before the industrial revolution. It has existed before humans. It will exist after humans. Trying to prevent climate is like trying to prevent the sun from rising in the east.

Is there room for us to mitigate human contribution to climate change? Sure. Would that matter. Probably not. Are there other areas we should be concentrating on? Yes.

Environmental preservation ( forests, rivers, oceans ... ). Species protection. Build better and walkable cities.

Global warming ( rebranded by PR firms as the silly "climate change" ) isn't the first apocalyptic hysteria by "scientists" ( and by "scientists" I mostly mean politicians, corporations, lawyers, etc trying to profit ).

Here are some of the "end of the world" events cassandrized by "scientists"

Climate change. Global warming, Global cooling ( from 1940s to 1970s ). That's right folks, before we were going to boil to death, we were going to freeze to death. Of course there are the supervolcanic eruptions. Asteroid strike. Of course dire warnings of nuclear holocaust. Then there was malthusian prediction of death by population growth. Boy was he wrong about that one. "Scientists" even warned of extinction of humans by race mixing - look up social darwinism. Now we laugh at that.

So take a deep breath. The world is not going to end anytime soon. Climate change happens with or without humans. We'll adapt like we always have.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#237
post #45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Earth has also been a lot warmer than it is now Key here is rate of change, and what humans can survive. We are changing the climate many many times faster than ever before. Nature does not have the time to adapt. And the wars, famines and mass displacements coming from ecosystem collapse is like nothing we've seen in human history. Think we have a problem with a few million migrants? Try a billion or two! P-T…

Earth will be fine. Life on Earth will be fine, but that life will be different to the life we have today. The only thing not fine is whether humans survive what they/we ultimately have brought about. But in there is a kind of beautiful justice that the universe has in it's self-correcting algorithm... if you create imbalance, the imbalance will correct in time but perhaps to do so it kills you. If we care about the…

Sounds like a job for Thanos (the last avenger movie) ;)

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bhutan is a great example how countries could look like. It is the only carbon-negative country in the world and they measure Gross National Happiness instead of Gross Domestic Product. https://www.ecowatch.com/this-country-isnt-just-carbon-neutr...

Are you aware of this country's recent past ethnic cleansing...?

How is that related to their carbon policies?

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#239
Don't forget that the small things add up -- small things on their own won't change the world, but they change the lifestyle of one family at a time, and it helps both a little in the short run, and more as children raised in climate-aware homes grow up. If everyone starts making small changes, it will change demand, which changes markets, which changes politics.

Some small examples:

Walk to the grocery store every other day instead of driving once a week.

Use mass transit. Recycle. Use products made from renewable, recyclable materials.

Go ahead and put up a solar electric system, even if the costs aren't perfect, nor is the tech, or even always the carbon offset.... but it moves demand in the right direction and sends a message.

Turn down your heat in the winter, and your AC in the summer. Turn lights off when you leave a room. Be aware of your energy burn. As another commenter said, don't write or use cryptocurrency.

Produce and buy local goods.

And for cryin' out loud -- VOTE, for people who will be on the right side of this issue.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#240
We do nothing of the sort. We wait for the sea levels to rise and we build dams and walls. And we reinforce our buildings against natural disasters. And slowly the public demands changes on greenhouse gas emissions, recycling, etc, and it slowly will slow down the worsening effects.

That's the most likely scenario, nothing will change because the HackerNews netizens change cloud providers and start recycling more.

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