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An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

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Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#231

Post by HBlix »

ohazi wrote: post #54
rapnie wrote: post #18

Big art has been hijacked by big money. Art as an investment vehicle, something to preen yourself with, show others you are elite. This shows the hypocrisy. Unfortunately it will not change anything. The piece has just become more valuable, I predict. Go Banksy. Art for the masses.

Big money art is not just an investment vehicle, it allows collectors to do things that would be difficult or illegal with other assets. For example: You and a few of your rich buddies buy up as much artwork as you can from a famous but not too famous dead artist. Say, 10 pieces at a million a piece. I sell my friend one of them for 1.5 million and another for 1.7. I buy his for 2 and 3 million. Repeat a few times, a…

It’s also an incredible vehicle for money laundering.

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#232

Post by donarb »

avoutthere wrote: post #153
spuz wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me which other ingenious and clever marketing stunts Banksy, the anti-capitalist artist who refuses to allow his work or even prints (with rare exceptions) to be sold is known for?

For an "anti-capitalist", he sure has a lot of books for sale on Amazon.

Just as dumb as the anarchist breaking windows at Niketown in Seattle while wearing Nike shoes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139271/Anarchist-a...

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#233

Post by blamelessjay »

CPLX wrote: post #221
avoutthere wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an "anti-capitalist", he sure has a lot of books for sale on Amazon.

This is my least favorite criticism ever. “Like, hey man, if you’re complaining that the system is totally unfair and forces most people powerlessly into a narrow set of compromised choices, why are you making one of those choices?” When I worked with Tom Morello he used to get it all the time too. It’s a bogus argument. There’s no requirement that one leave the system they are in prior to expressing fundamental doub…

the force in this case being banksy’s (or morello’s) desire to partake of the benefits of capitalism?

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#234

Post by chrischen »

nns wrote: post #119

This is a well orchestrated publicity stunt. A reputed auction house like Sotheby's would never put an item up before thoroughly checking and documenting it. Post this stunt, the artwork will now be valued much higher than what it sold for at this auction. Banksy has been known for such ingenious and clever marketing stunts.

Well I guess they must be feeling very charitable because they allowed the value to skyrocket after bidding ended.

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#235

Post by isostatic »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #127
isostatic wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That money doesn't just vanish though. It's a wealth transfer from Adam to Bernice. Adam's bank balance drops from £100m to £99m, Bernice's goes from £100m to £101m. If that transfer didn't happen, then both bank balances would remain at £100m. Nothing is lost or gained, it's irrelevant (Although in Banksy's case the original first sale often involves a transfer of wealth from Adam and Bernice to a random person) The…

The transaction costs are bad, which may or may not be substantial.

Any transaction costs go to paying the auction house for things like catering, electricity, security, rent etc. No worse than a bunch of rich people spending money at a restaurant.

There's an argument that auction houses aren't paying their way for the services they use (especially in expensive areas), and other functions occupying that space could be better for society. A land value tax would solve that. I'm not aware that auction houses rely on other things like copyright or patents that can stifle economic activity.

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#236

Post by konschubert »

majewsky wrote: post #157
rmason wrote: post #69

Sadly what happened to a Banksy in Detroit maybe gave him the idea. An artist group 'extricated' the work from the ruins of the Packard auto plant. The new owner of the building who was planning to use the Banksy as a centerpiece for a retail center was not pleased. They promised to not sell it, then they did. http://beltmag.com/the-fight-over-graffiti-banksy-in-detroit...

In Germany, there is a second part of copyright law. The actual copyright can be sold as usual, but the Urheberpersönlichkeitsrecht (creator's personal right) cannot. It gives the creator the right to forbid public presentations of his work that misrepresent his artistic vision. The architect of Berlin Main Station (Norman Foster, if I'm not mistaken) used this law to (successfully) sue Deutsche Bahn (the German nati…

Wasn't it Marc & Gerkan?

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#238

Post by olivermarks »

isostatic wrote: post #108
throw0101011 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the number of people a product or a project will likely help times the ‘utility’ each person receive. > Once you start down the road of being dictotoe of spending on expensive things that aren't solving starvation, all kinds of things like space exploration, the development of the internet, etc all become "sorry effects". Guess how many villages could be fed on the budget of the Apollo program. I do…

That money doesn't just vanish though. It's a wealth transfer from Adam to Bernice. Adam's bank balance drops from £100m to £99m, Bernice's goes from £100m to £101m. If that transfer didn't happen, then both bank balances would remain at £100m. Nothing is lost or gained, it's irrelevant (Although in Banksy's case the original first sale often involves a transfer of wealth from Adam and Bernice to a random person) The…

Miles Mathis is very provocative on what 'art' is - he feels it is a massive money laundering exercise... http://mileswmathis.com/launder.pdf

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#239

Post by absorber »

camillomiller wrote: post #224
ljm wrote: post #201

Part of me feels like this stunt is clever because the nature of the performance improves the value of the work. So it's self-destructive in the technical sense of the term but it was designed in such a way to essentially transform the piece. While shocking in the moment, as the pictures of the scene show, the work has three separate qualities: the original significance of the piece, the new meaning it attains after…

Check out the DisintegrationLoops by William Basinski

Such a great concept. I discovered the artist just yesterday, imagine my surprise when someone mentioning him on HN!

Re: An artwork by Banksy shredded itself after selling for $1.3M at Sotheby’s

#240

Post by majewsky »

konschubert wrote: post #236
majewsky wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, there is a second part of copyright law. The actual copyright can be sold as usual, but the Urheberpersönlichkeitsrecht (creator's personal right) cannot. It gives the creator the right to forbid public presentations of his work that misrepresent his artistic vision. The architect of Berlin Main Station (Norman Foster, if I'm not mistaken) used this law to (successfully) sue Deutsche Bahn (the German nati…

Wasn't it Marc & Gerkan?

You're right, the architect in question was Meinhard von Gerkan.
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