I a non-immigrant here in SA's medical/emergency system is fully corrupted and broken. Citizen's of USA are not standing up/protesting this issue which can virtually affect everyone. Why are citizens sleeping? Same surgery with more experienced docs and equipment are done in 10-20 times less in my and the rest of the countries in the world. It's time to wake up USA
Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
231–240 of 377 posts
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've suddenly started seeing this take all over the place and I have no idea where it comes from because it doesn't make sense. That the insurance companies profit margins are restricted means rather little because executive pay isn't capped: if they earn too much money, they can simply pay bonuses to raise their expenses. Or cut shareholders a check. Or. Or. Or. Tangentially, this is why "non-profit" doesn't mean…
> This is not correct, as I understand it. Under the ACA (Obamacare), health plan providers had to ensure that at least 80% of premiums were paid out for patient services. That leaves 20% for overheard, including profit and compensation. Doesn't this imply that it's in the interest of health plan providers for patient services in general to be as expensive as possible? That means premiums will have to be correspondin…
Right, they have less incentive to negotiate for lower rates, because higher rates mean higher premiums, and higher premiums mean higher executive compensation.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> I'd switch immediately a well I doubt it. Someone needs to pay for it, so this switch would have to imply a 20% tax increase. Unless you’re paid peanuts, it’s not worth the tradeoff.
But you would save more by not having to buy your own medical insurance. I know an expat who moved to work for citi in the states from the UK and he was paying around 20% just for him -his wife kids are covered by her federal Job. UK NI is about 13% and that includes state pension, unemployment and the NHS
>> But you would save more
I wouldn’t.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So while dying of a heart attack he should have been negotiating with the ambulance driver, the paramedics, the nurses, each intern and doctor to make sure they are "in-network". Absolutely! I work in EMS. Thankfully, our Medic One system is funded entirely by property taxes and we simply do not bill (at all) for any treatment or transport. However, a few years ago United got a lot of grief over denying airlift tra…
So, when will the rich and powerful start hiring teams units straight from cyberpunk novels? (their own helicopters included) At these rate differences it starts seeming prudent to medical airlift to the right hospital...
Hey! Cyberpunk 2077 had a sequence like this in the new game-play trailer, NSFW: https://youtu.be/MfW1WcuEI8Y?t=37m48s
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely disagree. The reason insurance pays for the small things is to encourage people to seek treatment early because it’s cheaper in the long run. Almost nobody would pay hundreds for a cancer screening like mammogram or colonoscopy that they don’t believe they need, but catching these things early is orders of magnitude better both for health and financial outcomes. Insurance covering a minor infection preve…
Yes, humans are shortsighted and stupid. That's why we need state-sponsored medical care. Run by humans.
Not sure if you're joking, but that's a pretty lazy fallacy of composition there.
Ex: Human memory sucks, but you can generally trust the immutability of books, despite them being written and copied and bound and distributed and sold by humans.
It's all about using strengths in the right direction and order to sidestep weaknesses.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, and is that line of reasoning working? Are we as a society saving money doing it that way? It seems what people really need is just a savings account and some incentive to actually save money for future expenses (because knowing that someday you are going to get an illness that 100% of people get apparently isn't enough motivation).
HSA’s are available and most people don’t effectively use them, part of the problem is most people don’t/can’t save anyway. You’re not all wrong, but you’re talking about changing behavior which is much harder than just making the system work for how people actually behave.
HSA's are horrible. Way to much government nonsense with limits on contributions and providers and tying them to particular insurance plans. Completely ineffective. When you see that you could save some money for future medical expenses, but you don't qualify for any tax breaks because the amount you want to save is too much or your health insurance doesn't allow it, it's very demotivating for saving at all.
The thought I have is we should all definitely carry catastrophic health insurance, but then people should be on their own for the rest. I'm sure that payment plans and medical care clubs would spring up to fit the needs of those who absolutely need a way to force themselves to save ahead. Those things should not be called insurance, they should not be sold as insurance, nor should they encroach at all into the territory of true insurance that is meant for rare and catastrophic events.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
So... When you're in the ambulance dying of a heart attack, you're supposed to be negotiating over your saline drip or on the phone with another ambulance company looking for a better deal?
Maybe if you had picked an example of some medical supply that is used only in emergencies your sentiment would make sense. The price of saline, and nearly all medical supplies, absolutely could be subjected to market pressures in the majority of medical situations, which would drive the price down for everyone, even for heart attack victims.
The price of saline is $1/L (subject to market pressure). It's being billed at $300/L which isn't subject to market pressure.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've suddenly started seeing this take all over the place and I have no idea where it comes from because it doesn't make sense. That the insurance companies profit margins are restricted means rather little because executive pay isn't capped: if they earn too much money, they can simply pay bonuses to raise their expenses. Or cut shareholders a check. Or. Or. Or. Tangentially, this is why "non-profit" doesn't mean wh…
If they pay bonuses to themselves, then their premiums will be higher than other insurance companies so they would lose customers, the same that stops any other business from doing the same. And since taxpayer funded healthcare is off the table in the US, we have to work with what we can. The biggest problem with health insurance right now is everyone is not forced to use healthcare.gov so the risk pools don't have t…
> If they pay bonuses to themselves, then their premiums will be higher than other insurance companies so they would lose customers, the same that stops any other business from doing the same.
This might stand up in a highly competitive market, but even there you have network effects, and asymmetric power/information issues, that keep it from ever being completely true. In a market like health insurance where large fractions of people get their coverage from their employers who make choices for their employees, it's not really credible to say that high premiums will drive an insurance company out of the market. Moreover, the data bears out that premiums, profits, and executive compensation are all increasing while the overall cost of our healthcare as a nation spirals out of control.
> And since taxpayer funded healthcare is off the table in the US, we have to work with what we can.
If you expect elected officials to fix it by writing them letters and angry comments on the internet, well, yes. But campaigning and petitioning are not the only routes to accomplishing political goals. The teachers' union/wildcat strikes across states with unified Republican control of the government that successfully forced wage and funding increases, despite timid unions that wanted to push for less, should be an indication of what actually works. We don't have to accept the system as it is.
> The biggest problem with health insurance right now is everyone is not forced to use healthcare.gov so the risk pools don't have the correct distribution of healthy and unhealthy people.
That's a problem in that will cause premiums to spiral faster and eventually shutter those insurance pools. But that's a slow death. The largest problem in health insurance right now are the actual, living people being forced across the country to either suffer or die from solvable medical problems, people who are rationing medication because they cannot afford to buy more, people who are being forced into bankruptcy by a broken system. When lives are already being destroyed today, a patch that prevents the rate of lives from being destroyed from increasing quite so quickly is nice, but it quite clearly misses the forest for the trees.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#239How is a regular person who has other things to do than to read and understated all the details and traps of his health insurance supposed to navigate this insane system? From what I read going to a hospital is pretty much a gamble that has a certain probability to bankrupt you and there is pretty much nothing you can do about it. There should be bipartisan agreement that these practices are just not acceptable and t…
Yes, I demand full and final information about what the heart attack I am currently suffering is going to cost me to be treated at this hospital. If I think you are trying to extort me, I am just going to go to another hospital.
Not sure if you are trying to be funny but you aren't.
"The next day, doctors implanted stents in his clogged “widow-maker” artery."
By that time they could have clarified the insurance situation. In any case I don't think it's acceptable that any kind of emergency can bankrupt you if you have the bad luck to end up at the wrong hospital or wrong doctor.
Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack
#240Has anyone in the US considered flying overseas to get treatment done? Many hospitals in third world countries are cheaper and more humane. Sure, you lose out on the ability to sue them if things go awry but where is the tradeoff between six figure debt at an old age vs paying $10000 to get the whole thing done?
> Has anyone in the US considered flying overseas to get treatment done?
I think a lot of people do but in a lot of situations you need to deal with things right now.
If you get a heart attack, you can't just hit the pause button on life, crack open Google and start searching for "best heart attack treatment center outside of the US", then research things, book the travel arrangements and take a long flight.